2 or 3 quality session per week

quality days wrote:

He guys, i do 6 training units/week and i am interested in 5k/10k races.

The classic approach is 2 quality sessions + 1 long run per week, so 3 quality sessions/week.

I was wondering if not omly 2 quality sessions/week are sufficient or even better??

Which feels best to you?

If you feel you've recovered enough to do that third quality session, then three might be best. If you don't, and feel like you need that extra recovery/easy day to have a productive quality session, then perhaps two is best for you, right now.

One option, if you're not sure which is best for you currently, is to split the difference. Rather than doing 3 killer workouts, maybe make one of them, something like a short or medium distance easy-pace run, but with 10 x 100m strides with full rest (100-200m). That allows you a little speed work, without going anaerobic and feeling wiped out the next day, with fatigue bleeding into your next quality day. Another option, but only if you feel recovered, might be to do a third quality day as a true, non-structured fartlek run, adding speed by feel and not with any specific pace, distance or time of the fast portions.

Another idea is to make one of the quality sessions the long run so that you have two hard days. I can’t seem to recover with two quality sessions and a long run on another day. Maybe I’m just weak and injury prone but this has helped me stay healthy.

....or go to a 9 day 'week' and get all 3 in.

My magic experienced advice ; When you aim at 5k/ 10 k you just need 2 quality sessions per week and the longest run to be 70-80 min to get a boost of mitochondria + enzymes. The 2 quality sessions should then be one maxVO2 interval at 5 k race pace and one LT interval at close to half marathon race pace. It looks very simpel but is very effective.Good luck! :)

kmaclam wrote:

....or go to a 9 day 'week' and get all 3 in.

You mean training 9 days in a row?

quality days wrote:

kmaclam wrote:

....or go to a 9 day 'week' and get all 3 in.

You mean training 9 days in a row?

No a nine-day cycle.

Look up meb training

For marathon especially, but probably 5k/10k as well, the most optimal is a 9-day cycle. Easy-easy-speed-easy-easy-tempo-easy-easy-long, and repeat. Or a 10-day cycle where the 10th day is a rest day. That cycle works well because you have lots of recovery between your quality sessions so you have more time to recover which is important to reduce injury and burn out risk but also because you don't improve when you do the workout, you improve while recovering from the workout. So a little extra recovery increases the change that you recover properly.

The problem with a 9 or 10 day cycle, is that it is not conducive to having a job. You work week is based on a 7 day cycle. Imagine being in the thick of training, and having to do a 2-hour long run (or longer) in the morning when you have to be in to work at 8am. That's brutal. The 9 or 10 day cycle, although optimal, only really works for pro runners, so instead you need to use a 7 day cycle. The standard 7 day cycle is speed Tuesays, tempo Fridays, and long run on Sundays, other days easy.

Be pragmatic;

2 longer, harder sessions

or

3 shorter, easier

Total mileage hard should stay the same.

COACH WIZARD 1 wrote:

My magic experienced advice ; When you aim at 5k/ 10 k you just need 2 quality sessions per week and the longest run to be 70-80 min to get a boost of mitochondria + enzymes. The 2 quality sessions should then be one maxVO2 interval at 5 k race pace and one LT interval at close to half marathon race pace. It looks very simpel but is very effective.Good luck! :)

“Boost of mitochondria + enzymes”

LOL

There is no absolute answer here. Two quality plus a long run is however a very good starting place.

As you get into shape you can certainly add a third and even a fourth quality workout, on one condition; it's done close to one of the original two quality workouts. Ex, that LT run and then an interval session, 8 to 12 hrs apart. Or an interval workout, then a tempo run 8 to 12 hrs apart.

And on the long run, only try to increase the length every other week rather every week. The same can be done with the other quality workouts, only increase volume every other week. That week of not increasing volume is about feeling good in those workouts and really focusing on execution. I like to have the week I increased volume on the long run to be the week I did not increase volume with the quality wokouts

And try not to kill yourself on those easy days. The sport is littered with people giving excuses of running too hard on easy days, for a qaulity workout ending up being subpar.

agc5k wrote:

The problem with a 9 or 10 day cycle, is that it is not conducive to having a job. You work week is based on a 7 day cycle. Imagine being in the thick of training, and having to do a 2-hour long run (or longer) in the morning when you have to be in to work at 8am. That's brutal. The 9 or 10 day cycle, although optimal, only really works for pro runners, so instead you need to use a 7 day cycle.

That's not the only option. You can align 8-9-10 day microcycles with your work schedule by adding or subtracting an easy day every now and then and shuffling the workouts around so that you don't have to do exceptionally long or hard ones before your day job. Example of 'subtraction' : if you do your long run on Saturday morning and spend the rest of the weekend reading a book on the couch, eating, napping and getting out for a short recovery jog, you're likely more than ready to hammer it on Monday.

quality days wrote:

He guys, i do 6 training units/week and i am interested in 5k/10k races.

The classic approach is 2 quality sessions + 1 long run per week, so 3 quality sessions/week.

I was wondering if not omly 2 quality sessions/week are sufficient or even better??

Individual and depending on volume and recovery. If you recover quite quickly, 3 is good since you do "only" 6 units. If you had done a LOT of easy volume, you might have just 2 (workouts). Workouts are the best for improving and volume backs that up. If easy volume is run too fast, the workout quality goes down. The less volume, the more recovery and the more workouts can be done. I am not sure a long run really is quality... It can give some effect when tiring out slow twitch can enable fast twitch to step in, and of course to "harden" the legs for longer running, but I do not think it is especially better than easy volume in itself. If a long run is hard to recover from I would rather shorten it (or ease down the pace) and get energy for 2 workouts. Another possibility is to instead of having long runs, you can just do an extended cool down after the workout. For example 20-30min easy running AFTER the workout. That will do the same trick as a long run really, maybe even better, but be aware that you might get really tired, having trouble recovering to the next workout.

Not all “quality” sessions are created equal. I suggest…

1 Threshold

1 Interval

1 Moderate Run (could be a progression run)

supragraf wrote:

COACH WIZARD 1 wrote:

My magic experienced advice ; When you aim at 5k/ 10 k you just need 2 quality sessions per week and the longest run to be 70-80 min to get a boost of mitochondria + enzymes. The 2 quality sessions should then be one maxVO2 interval at 5 k race pace and one LT interval at close to half marathon race pace. It looks very simpel but is very effective.Good luck! :)

“Boost of mitochondria + enzymes”

LOL

What did you find so funny in this? Besides it comes from a Brad Hudson statement when commenting the training of Yuki Kawauchi. ;)

I prefer a schedule like this…

Sunday: Progression Long Run (Starting very easy and progressing to moderate)

Tuesday: Threshold

Friday: Intervals

Easy on all the other days, except for some strides.

What really works is 4 threshold runs a week, and just rest in between.

quality days wrote:

He guys, i do 6 training units/week and i am interested in 5k/10k races.

The classic approach is 2 quality sessions + 1 long run per week, so 3 quality sessions/week.

I was wondering if not omly 2 quality sessions/week are sufficient or even better??

On weeks where you run your long run reasonably hard, absolutely no, do not do another quality session. On weeks where your long run is at easy pace, another quality session is potentially ok. Antoher strategy is to do strides at the end of a few easy days to get more quality in.

supragraf wrote:

COACH WIZARD 1 wrote:

My magic experienced advice ; When you aim at 5k/ 10 k you just need 2 quality sessions per week and the longest run to be 70-80 min to get a boost of mitochondria + enzymes. The 2 quality sessions should then be one maxVO2 interval at 5 k race pace and one LT interval at close to half marathon race pace. It looks very simpel but is very effective.Good luck! :)

“Boost of mitochondria + enzymes”

LOL

Something like that is happening in the body. I guess it sounds like a money shot of goodness?

marwar wrote:

What really works is 4 threshold runs a week, and just rest in between.

Great, what about doing that every 2 or 3 weeks?