Wait, a Japanese marathoner has gone sub 2:05 this year?

You really missed that? It was pretty big news back in February, when there were no other races of note happening. The US media does tend to ignore this sort of thing, so I can kind of understand knowing little to nothing about it.

The disconnect? The US public doesn't care about marathons as sport, period. Rupp or Deena could walk your average shopping mall in any town (not named Boulder, Flagstaff, Eugene, or Portland) for a couple of hours on a weekend day and go unnoticed. Suzuki may have missed on the million yen bonus yet he's a bonafide star celebrity in Japan now from that one race. Granted, he also had a bit of a reputation from a great ekiden performance prior to that.

US distance stars also dilute themselves across events. In Japan, it's the ekiden through college and then the marathon after, with few exceptions.

"A samurai should give no sign of suffering till he fell dead."

Japanese steakhouse wrote:

Was looking at the world overall list for fastest marathon times this year. And I saw this:

https://www.worldathletics.org/athletes/japan/kengo-suzuki-14598158

His PB is only 27:49 for 10000 and 61 PB in the half marathon. The fact Rupp or any of our American men going sub 28 minutes for the 10000 have not gone sub 2:06 in the marathon in the age of super shoes is crazy. What's the disconnect ?

His best half Marathon is 6153 to be precise exactly 1 minute quicker than Gidey.

He’s done 2:04:53 in the marathon which leads one to think that Gidey might be close to two hours 10 minutes in the marathon

If Rupp ever got the chance for a flat course AND excellent weather, I believe he could be a 2:04 guy but if you look at the races he does, championships, majors in crap weather, etc, he's running to win, not to set a fast time.

The marathon is the most important event for Japanese runners outside of ekidens. Promising Japanese hit up the 'thon right after completing college instead of waiting until they are almost 30. Plus, Japanese training is geared towards absolute aerobic beastliness. They do not train for speed that they do not have and pretty much do not care about track events.

Japanese steakhouse wrote:

The fact Rupp or any of our American men going sub 28 minutes for the 10000 have not gone sub 2:06 in the marathon in the age of super shoes is crazy. What's the disconnect ?

I know the shoes still work, I just KNOW it. It can't be confirmation bias.

This can be explained away somehow. Maybe the Americans aren't wearing them.

Quite possibly the clean world record.

Kengo is smaller than Molly Seidel. And that is how Japanese men are able to run fast time trial marathons. I believe he weighs like 100 lbs.

gfhdgfdg wrote:

If Rupp ever got the chance for a flat course AND excellent weather, I believe he could be a 2:04 guy but if you look at the races he does, championships, majors in crap weather, etc, he's running to win, not to set a fast time.

Rupp has never been that lucky. But yes, he's a Championship runner.

kengo suzuki also ran chicago and finished 2 minutes behind rupp for whatever that is worth. rupp was also winning a silver medal at the olympics in the 10k when he was suzukis age.

however, there does seem to be a huge discrepancy between world class marathoners and the top US guys (especially those not named Rupp). As others have mentioned, I do think culture plays a huge role there. Marathons are a bucket list item for a lot of out of middle aged/out of shape people in the US, but. they couldnt care less about watching other people do it. in japan and other places around the world it is a huge event.

Japanese running scene sounds nicer than the american scene.

Ekidens seem more fun than most championships.

Moo G wrote:

Kengo is smaller than Molly Seidel. And that is how Japanese men are able to run fast time trial marathons. I believe he weighs like 100 lbs.

Can confirm, having seen him in person. A lotta light guys in Japan.

te5n1k wrote:

kengo suzuki also ran chicago and finished 2 minutes behind rupp for whatever that is worth. rupp was also winning a silver medal at the olympics in the 10k when he was suzukis age..

^^^ This.

Rupp wiped the floor of Suzuki in Chicago.

I wish Rupp would skip the WCs and get the AR.

Rupp should easily be a 2:04 marathoner in super shoes. 2:06 is basically as good as a white guy can do in old school shoes (Hall and others), subtract 2 minutes and you get 2:04.

rojo wrote:

te5n1k wrote:

kengo suzuki also ran chicago and finished 2 minutes behind rupp for whatever that is worth. rupp was also winning a silver medal at the olympics in the 10k when he was suzukis age..

^^^ This.

Rupp wiped the floor of Suzuki in Chicago.

I wish Rupp would skip the WCs and get the AR.

Rupp should easily be a 2:04 marathoner in super shoes. 2:06 is basically as good as a white guy can do in old school shoes (Hall and others), subtract 2 minutes and you get 2:04.

Typical Letsrun. Someone points out that Americans underperform in the marathon and points on Japanese marathoners. Then the LRC crowd gets all butthurt and starts yelling about how Rupp beat Suzuki in Chicago. So F what? It isn´t like Rupp never has run on fast courses, but still his PB is only 2,06 and all other American marathoners are B level.

well,, wrote:

rojo wrote:

^^^ This.

Rupp wiped the floor of Suzuki in Chicago.

I wish Rupp would skip the WCs and get the AR.

Rupp should easily be a 2:04 marathoner in super shoes. 2:06 is basically as good as a white guy can do in old school shoes (Hall and others), subtract 2 minutes and you get 2:04.

Typical Letsrun. Someone points out that Americans underperform in the marathon and points on Japanese marathoners. Then the LRC crowd gets all butthurt and starts yelling about how Rupp beat Suzuki in Chicago. So F what? It isn´t like Rupp never has run on fast courses, but still his PB is only 2,06 and all other American marathoners are B level.

Actually "Typical Letsrun" obsesses over time, "2:03 guys" and "2:04 guys" - guys that Rupp routinely runs circles around every time they race. See Sisay Lemma, 2021 London Champ - trounced by Rupp in Chicago (2017) and Prague (2018).

Rupp's PB is 2:06 because he's interested in winning MEDALS and cashing checks in Boston and Chicago; not that you can blame him for that.

yep23 wrote:

well,, wrote:

Typical Letsrun. Someone points out that Americans underperform in the marathon and points on Japanese marathoners. Then the LRC crowd gets all butthurt and starts yelling about how Rupp beat Suzuki in Chicago. So F what? It isn´t like Rupp never has run on fast courses, but still his PB is only 2,06 and all other American marathoners are B level.

Actually "Typical Letsrun" obsesses over time, "2:03 guys" and "2:04 guys" - guys that Rupp routinely runs circles around every time they race. See Sisay Lemma, 2021 London Champ - trounced by Rupp in Chicago (2017) and Prague (2018).

Rupp's PB is 2:06 because he's interested in winning MEDALS and cashing checks in Boston and Chicago; not that you can blame him for that.

This thread was not about Rupp. It was about American marathoners underperforming.

yep23 wrote:

well,, wrote:

Typical Letsrun. Someone points out that Americans underperform in the marathon and points on Japanese marathoners. Then the LRC crowd gets all butthurt and starts yelling about how Rupp beat Suzuki in Chicago. So F what? It isn´t like Rupp never has run on fast courses, but still his PB is only 2,06 and all other American marathoners are B level.

Actually "Typical Letsrun" obsesses over time, "2:03 guys" and "2:04 guys" - guys that Rupp routinely runs circles around every time they race. See Sisay Lemma, 2021 London Champ - trounced by Rupp in Chicago (2017) and Prague (2018).

Rupp's PB is 2:06 because he's interested in winning MEDALS and cashing checks in Boston and Chicago; not that you can blame him for that.

And because Rupp's manager get's more money if Rupp runs Boston/Chicago/London, so that's what he pushes him into. Would Rupp/Manager get the same appearance fee and prize money if he ran super fast and flat Dubai? I doubt it.

Japanese distance running is far more developed than US. The Japanese have more people participating, greater aerobic development in childhood, national popularity. etc etc. American distance running as a whole is on the decline when it comes to international competition. Is that good or bad? It just is. I do not see any fundamental change in our athletic culture that is decline will not continue if not permanent.

rojo wrote:

te5n1k wrote:

kengo suzuki also ran chicago and finished 2 minutes behind rupp for whatever that is worth. rupp was also winning a silver medal at the olympics in the 10k when he was suzukis age..

^^^ This.

Rupp wiped the floor of Suzuki in Chicago.

I wish Rupp would skip the WCs and get the AR.

Rupp should easily be a 2:04 marathoner in super shoes. 2:06 is basically as good as a white guy can do in old school shoes (Hall and others), subtract 2 minutes and you get 2:04.

Well sure, and he "wiped the floor of" (sic) Osako in Sapporo. What of it? Rupp is getting pretty close to done, Osako is already done, and Suzuki is just getting started. Meanwhile, there are hordes of guys in Japan, both old and young, going under 2:08. Were you paying attention when Suzuki went sub-2:05 in February? It was a parade of Japanese guys through the finish between 2:06 and 2:08, including two in their debut! We can only dream of having even half that depth, we don't have clue one for implementing development to get that done. Meanwhile, we fall all over ourselves if an American gets close to 2:10 on debut or when Parker Stinson breaks 2:11 in his third try.

P.S. records are overrated