Why do Elite Winners seem not to struggle?

Did you see that big positive split? They were struggling. The close up shots of Bekele around 20k? Struggling!

For the most part, even if they are losing time, they don't seem to show the same struggle in their faces/bodies as you see in non-elite runners.

And for those who actually win...sometimes look like they could run another race!

Its called adrenaline. If you win a big race or break a record, your body forgets about the pain for a couple of minutes. They absolutely could not run harder, there is a reason the second half marathon split was 5 minutes slower

I can’t remember who exactly was in this interview but they were talk about their first year as a pro and what is was like racing against the best in the world. Basically they said you could be in a 27 flat 10k and not hear the person in front or behind you breathing because the people at that level have years and years of 100 mile weeks under their belts and you’re aerobic system is the thing that never stops improving as you get older.

quadraticformula wrote:

Watching the Berlin marathon, a thought occurred to me that has many times before - when I see elite runners at the end of races, many of them show no visible stress as they are finishing, don't seem to be breathing very hard, and continue to jog around afterwards, as if it were more of a tempo run than an all-out race.

It seems to me, wouldn't they be able to run faster if they "pushed" more? Obviously you don't want to push so hard your form goes haywire, but it seems there's a lot of room for more here!

At the level they’ve optimized themselves, any visible “push” would be uneconomical and therefore suboptimal. Even unnecessarily moving facial muscles has a cost, so a runner like Kipchoge uses a painful grimace cleverly as a smile instead to get the most psychological bang out of the almost involuntary physiological reaction. They could push themselves even more for maybe the last 100 meters but usually won’t unless it’s a sprint finish or a WR is at stake. Even at the very end in Berlin’19, do you think Bekele wasn’t trying to give it his all to shave off two more seconds? He obviously was at his limit.

Look at Kitata’s sprint finish win at London’19. Or the famous half marathon sprint finish where Bekele was teasing Mo Farah who was visibly pushing himself in agony. Bekele knew exactly what he was doing and was in full control running efficiently. You can’t run efficiently while looking like you are trying too hard.

Id imagine they are in a world of pain, but at that level and especially in the marathon you need to condition yourself to hold form and composure.

Tensing your face takes energy. Flailing your arms takes energy. Slowing cadence and over-striding takes energy. Etc. that kind of stuff will really add up over a marathon.

quadraticformula wrote:

Watching the Berlin marathon, a thought occurred to me that has many times before - when I see elite runners at the end of races, many of them show no visible stress as they are finishing, don't seem to be breathing very hard, and continue to jog around afterwards, as if it were more of a tempo run than an all-out race.

It seems to me, wouldn't they be able to run faster if they "pushed" more? Obviously you don't want to push so hard your form goes haywire, but it seems there's a lot of room for more here!

This is a good thread and confirms something I'd wondered for months until AverageForFun mentioned it to me awhile back as well.

In 2019 I busted a nut to complete my first marathon on no training and ran 3:24. Not a good time but not horrible.

I was passed by a ton of runners from Mile 22 to the finish, including some chatty girls from CRC (Columbus Running Company) who seemed to be jogging--they just blew by me. I was confused by that; I always thought everyone would be grimacing and focused at that point but some people have higher pain tolerances--and as he said, those girls were also struggling. Sometimes you also can't read facial expressions as an indicator of that (as I learned).

CopperRunner wrote:

Id imagine they are in a world of pain, .

Discomfort. If you are experiencing pain then you are injured.

The elites at different times do struggle. During Berlin Marathon yesterday. They all seemed to struggle. And it resulted in several lead changes. Gaps being closed up to 30 seconds for the women and almost 90 seconds in the mens race. But continuity in training can make the race finish a lot more comfortable than poor training habits. Also I've assisted with training hobbyjoggers to get faster. Most will quit before mid training. Training is sometimes harder than the race. When there's a time goal. Training consistently makes the participants look less stressed in a race.

OP is a hobby jogger.

CopperRunner wrote:

Id imagine they are in a world of pain, but at that level and especially in the marathon you need to condition yourself to hold form and composure.

Tensing your face takes energy. Flailing your arms takes energy. Slowing cadence and over-striding takes energy. Etc. that kind of stuff will really add up over a marathon.

There we have it. You don't run fast by having terrible form, and fast people are well aware that keeping good form, even when very tired, is the only way to keep going as fast as you can in that moment. Also, typically the winner is the winner because they were the most in control of their effort during the race and redlining less than the other runners, so the pace wasn't as hard for them early on as it was for the other runners, allowing them to run more 'sharp' later into the race.

Marathon training has come a long way. Elite marathoners are no longer hitting the wall and being taken to the limits of human effort like they may have done a few decades ago. They reach a point in a race where they are all in and cannot go any faster, but aren't really breaking down that badly.

quadraticformula wrote:

Obviously you don't want to push so hard your form goes haywire, but it seems there's a lot of room for more here!

1) You are assuming that there is a threshold of form haywireness only beyond which it starts to become unproductive, but the reality is continuous: any deviation from optimal form has an economy cost, the more the worse.

2) Hobby joggers usually don’t have the neuromusculoskeletal conditioning to run close to their body’s physical limits, so they do have more room to go “haywire” for a bit, but when you are close to your limits and push further, you will likely bonk suddenly. Even Cheptegai learned this the hard way in a cross country race that he was leading till the last mile or so in front of a home crowd and then just bonked barely being able to stay vertical and got passed by everyone.

That said, elites do take the economy risk close to the finish, e.g., look at the Sydney’00 spectacular 10K sprint finish between Geb and Tergat and tell me that you don’t see the great Geb himself visibly giving it everything he had.

Look at racing before release of Nike Next% . Pure pain. Fainting at the finish. Super shoe era destroyed beauty of this sport

quadraticformula wrote:

Watching the Berlin marathon, a thought occurred to me that has many times before - when I see elite runners at the end of races, many of them show no visible stress as they are finishing, don't seem to be breathing very hard, and continue to jog around afterwards, as if it were more of a tempo run than an all-out race.

It seems to me, wouldn't they be able to run faster if they "pushed" more? Obviously you don't want to push so hard your form goes haywire, but it seems there's a lot of room for more here!

It may sound overly obvious, but the reason they're not struggling because they're trained harder than anyone else and have more talent than anyone else. Those two factors are also the reason, they're leading.

Also, elites often don't have to run to the absolute maximum of their capability. They only have to run faster than anyone else there that day. Often (but not always) this leaves them below their torture point. They also train beyond what it takes to perform on race day, unlike most of us, who do the minimum to achieve some hobby jogger goal we have.

Exceptions would be if they're trying to break a world record or are in a foot race with someone equal to them at the finish. Often times they'll look like they're suffering in that instance, but less than we would due to the adrenaline of such a special moment, and their training.

In response to Runner10287, if LetsRun had a laughing-so-hard-I'm-crying emoji, I'd use it. Definitely never been called a "hobby jogger" before! :) I will gladly take it!

Thanks for the great responses so far. It is becoming clear to me the answer to my question. It does make sense, that the moment you start seeing "struggling," you would already be starting a downward trajectory, so, counterintuitively maybe, you would want to just push yourself to that point. I had never just really conceptualized and clarified it.

Onward with smooth speed! ;)

quadraticformula wrote:

Watching the Berlin marathon, a thought occurred to me that has many times before - when I see elite runners at the end of races, many of them show no visible stress as they are finishing, don't seem to be breathing very hard, and continue to jog around afterwards, as if it were more of a tempo run than an all-out race.

It seems to me, wouldn't they be able to run faster if they "pushed" more? Obviously you don't want to push so hard your form goes haywire, but it seems there's a lot of room for more here!

Have you ever won a race while truly struggling?

Usually a runner is having a good day when they win. When you win a race, things are clicking and you're feeling good.

Think of all your best races and how you were doing...

No, I haven't won a race while truly struggling, however, I feel confident in saying that I have done a lot better than I would've done, if I hadn't struggled at all.

But, I am not elite. So. :)