How is the Afghan army so inept?

88 billons dollars spent in training , equipping and funding the Afghan army.

To lose and collapse against peasant with rifles. It's an epic failure.

Western people don't understand the benefit of having a unified state. Mostly because they went through the trouble during centuries from the Middle-Age, to the XVIIIth-XIXth century. Since then people identify with "nations".

There's no truly united, functioning state in Afghanistan. People only identify themselves with their own local community over there.

So it's very hard for the "government" in Afghanistan to coordinate efforts, and to have full support of a majority of the population at any given time.

Marvellous9 wrote:

Western people don't understand the benefit of having a unified state. Mostly because they went through the trouble during centuries from the Middle-Age, to the XVIIIth-XIXth century. Since then people identify with "nations".

There's no truly united, functioning state in Afghanistan. People only identify themselves with their own local community over there.

So it's very hard for the "government" in Afghanistan to coordinate efforts, and to have full support of a majority of the population at any given time.

And when I say "local community", I mean sometimes it's extremely local, like just the family, extended family, ... almost like a tribe.

The population doesn't recognize the government as the supreme authority.

The usa supplying the taliban again. You guys never learn

That's fine. But the alternative is living under Taliban rule. I mean, you'd think they could get just a little organized in order to avoid that.

jusuutfv wrote:

That's fine. But the alternative is living under Taliban rule. I mean, you'd think they could get just a little organized in order to avoid that.

They can't. They don't trust anyone but their own little community. And each of these communities have very hard time organizing with the other communities.

We gave them the Afghan people a chance but it is not our fight. Thank you Joe Biden for getting us out of there!!

It probably all comes down to commitment. We were more committed to it than the most of the Afghan people.

With all respect, it has nothing to do with communities in Afghanistan.

The US has failed to create an efficient army. The state building project has failed miserably. The US allowed corrupt warlords to thrive and the population have zero trust in them and in the governement.

Google bachi baza and then comeback and understand why talibans are popular among pashtun population and even other groups now.

Mr Gerlun wrote:

With all respect, it has nothing to do with communities in Afghanistan.

The US has failed to create an efficient army. The state building project has failed miserably. The US allowed corrupt warlords to thrive and the population have zero trust in them and in the governement.

Google bachi baza and then comeback and understand why talibans are popular among pashtun population and even other groups now.

With all respect, I don't think you comprehended me.

To have an efficient army you must have a solid nation-state. To have a solid nation-state, you must have the population, or at least a majority of a population believing in the nation.

Afghan people don't believe in the nation.

They only believe their own clan.

Sometimes multiple clans have the same goal, but usually it never lasts long before one of the clan diverge from the common goal.

Basically Afghan don't have a solid national identity. They look up to the state for basically nothing.

The Taliban is going to take Kabul just in time for the 20th anniversary of September 11th. Is this the most humiliating US defeat of all-time?

Because "Afghans" are purely tribal. Dumb Americans look on a map and see a country with borders. The people who live there identify by their local tribe as they've done for thousands of years. That won't change. Hopefully the last 20 years have taught all of us, regardless of political leanings, that we can't fix the world, tribal societies in particular. But hey, defense contractors made trillions. Future wars should be wipe them off the map in an hour, or don't engage at all.

True...and this is the norm for third World countries..

Allegiance only to family and friends and not to greater society. Let THEM decide their fate.

Because we don’t learn from history. Same thing happened in Vietnam. America’s goal should of been send special forces only in to take out bin Ladin. That’s it. You’re not going to bring democracy to a nation full of Muslims. It’s in contradiction to their kill at all costs religion.

I agree.

Anytime you are literally required to negotiate with "tribal elders" and then sprinkle in the fact that you are dealing with a Muslim country where many believe in Sharia law and it should be obvious the battle has already been lost.

That wasn't a "war" that could have ever been "won" in a traditional sense. If it is falling this easily, clearly the majority of the people have a different "vision" for their lives than we do.

Option A. Do some bare minimum to staff an army/security force to keep some medieval criminals in check. After receiving 20y of training and equipping from the richest nation on earth.

Option B. Medieval criminals come for you daughters, kill or conscript your sons, and take any valuables you have.

This is a colossal bipartisan clustefook. We could have left that skeleton crew in Afg forever, had a presence, forward base for ops, intel, etc.

runnerboy70 wrote:

Marvellous9 wrote:

With all respect, I don't think you comprehended me.

To have an efficient army you must have a solid nation-state. To have a solid nation-state, you must have the population, or at least a majority of a population believing in the nation.

Afghan people don't believe in the nation.

They only believe their own clan.

Sometimes multiple clans have the same goal, but usually it never lasts long before one of the clan diverge from the common goal.

True...and this is the norm for third World countries..

Allegiance only to family and friends and not to greater society. Let THEM decide their fate.

Congrats, you just succinctly described the current prevailing mindset of the USA.

It's ungovernable.

British couldn't do it.

Soviets couldn't do it.

Neither can we.

It's not Iraq.

Tribal warlords control vast parts of the country., even under Taliban "rule".

The Afghan "Army" are probably being paid off or were pro-Taliban to begin with.

We were fine with the Taliban controlling Afghanistan before Al-Qaeda planned and executed 9-11.

Alan

Delta Variant of Covid wrote:

Option A. Do some bare minimum to staff an army/security force to keep some medieval criminals in check. After receiving 20y of training and equipping from the richest nation on earth.

Option B. Medieval criminals come for you daughters, kill or conscript your sons, and take any valuables you have.

This is a colossal bipartisan clustefook. We could have left that skeleton crew in Afg forever, had a presence, forward base for ops, intel, etc.

How would that skeleton crew of 2000 or so have prevented the Taliban form taking over the country? Short of fully occupying the country permanently this result was inevitable.