Is Danny Mackey a bad coach or just really unlucky?

To be honest, their training seems like the kind of stuff I was doing in high school and college. Not sure what to take from that, but I’m thinking that it’s not enough to take most of them to the next level as pro runners.

My view is he does what he can with second-tier talent and second-tier shoes. Spencer is more like a third-tier guy trying to become second-tier. He was brought on to get them more YouTube viewers not to be their next Olympian.

Kerr isn't that new, he's been with Mackey since 2018 or 2019 I think, but he's really the only athlete on the men's side of the Beasts who has consistently run well. Windle, who I think has been with Mackey the longest out of the current Brooks Beasts, hasn't had a good performance in a while, and all of the 1500 runners except Kerr ran terribly at their last race (although to be fair it was only one race).

If Allie O does not take advantage of the Colleen Quigley departure from BTC then Danny needs to move on.

I have personal experience knowing someone who ran under him. He’s a horrible coach who doesn’t know what he’s doing.

horrible coach

Having watched some of their youtube videos, this is exactly it. They hardly train. I get that mileage mania is no longer in vogue, especially with middle distance guys. But they have atrocious strength, and I'd be surprised if any of them run much more than 50 to 70 mpw, if that.

They seem to think they're speedy 800/1500 types, but outside of maybe Windle none of them have that kind of wheels. Anything they do at 3000m to 5000m is either meh or just embarrassing.

The "hard work" I've seen them do on you tube is "tempos" at like 5:40 to 5:20, mile repeats at 4:50 or maybe 4:40's. Just nothing close to high level. I get in these conversations there's always a chicken and egg thing about talent versus impressive training - training isn't as easy as just "do the workouts faster". But given their demonstrated ability and any awareness of what other guys at or just beyond that level are doing, it just does not compute. Look at Julien Wanders' strava. Another world.

Izaic Yorks 1:46.97 / 3:36/ 3:58 / 8:44 / 13:53

Henry Wynne 1:47.00 / 3:35 /3:56 /8:00/ 13:30 . This guy has bonkers levels of natural ability, almost definitely undertrained.

Several of the other guys just simply don't run over 1500m ever or have 14:30+ PRs from years ago.

I just don't get the theory they're operating on. Maybe if you run 1:43, 1:44 you're a fast-twitch type and you can approach the 1500 in this low mileage , lower strength way. But if you run 1:47, you're not actually quick at a global level. You have to be strong. They train like 14:00 runners at best, if that, it makes little sense.

Quick correction, Yorks and Wynne have run 7:50 and 7:52 indoors. That's what is perhaps most confusing, there is evidence the raw ability is there. But that's nothing close to whats required on a world stage, and every workout I've seen them do, I've heard of plenty of talented high schoolers who could mess with the workouts.

Heath was really good when he was not old.

Brooks Beasts is where formerly decent athletes go to die.

Allie Buchalski definitely improved nicely.

protomon wrote:

Heath was really good when he was not old.

I actually forgot about Heath, he’s probably been under Mackey for longer than Windle. He did well for a while, although he again hasn’t done much recently.

OriginalLurker wrote:

Allie Buchalski definitely improved nicely.

definitely-sub 15 after a solid college career-2nd in NCAA's in her senior year, but her PR was 15:20 -15:30 range then...

I don’t think he’s a bad coach but not a particularly good one either. I remember in a video hearing someone at brooks basically saying he sounded like he was giving good coaching advice to Katie so they figured they’d give him the job for head coach of a whole group.

Its easy to rip on a coach. However, the first thing i would say is coaches can get away with more mistakes if their talent pool of athletes is high. Good athletes make coaches look good. Jerry schumacher is angood coach but he also has a strong collection of talent.

With respect to danny mckay- for those of you that say he is no good tell me what you would do different in terms of training/workouts/ and anything else.

Personally i think the beasts could race more. I mean the trials are about what, maybe 12 weeks away. You can race and train simultaneously. They do it in college and success happens.

I dont think that their training per the athlete special is totally out of whack. Seems to be a lot of strength type stuff. For mid d guys i would expect them to transition i to more speed type work.

sympathy please wrote:

If Allie O does not take advantage of the Colleen Quigley departure from BTC then Danny needs to move on.

Allie O looks like a 15-year-old and behaves like a 12-year-old. It's very disturbing that she started to make appearances in those Athlete Special videos. I cannot imagine that she could take advantage of anything.

Let it Rupp wrote:

With Spencer Brown injured AGAIN, one has to wonder if Mackey is a sh!t coach or just really unlucky and attracts athletes that are injury prone and/or past their prime. He's had athletes run some decent performances but almost all of them besides Kerr (who is a new addition and was great before joining the Beasts) is currently running like donkey crap or injured or just coming back from injury. Is it safe to say that Mackey officially sucks as a coach?

They are only a step above tinman. They do so much mileage and lack speed training that it’s insane. Kerr would run well under any single coach it’s just a fact.

Windle: what the hell is happening.

Kidder: what the hell is happening (congrats on the engagement)

Ribich: what the hell is happening

Yorks: I just want to see you race well

Nelson: eh you were injury prone that last year in college so it’s not surprising. Glad to see her running healthy

Ostrander: was hurt recently

Brown: I really don’t care but it’s cool he's trying to make it

Wynne: what the hell is happening

Danny just doesn’t know how to get things done and it shows. These guys can run time trials and run well but in big races are just as irrelevant as I am.

all there is to it wrote:

My view is he does what he can with second-tier talent and second-tier shoes. Spencer is more like a third-tier guy trying to become second-tier. He was brought on to get them more YouTube viewers not to be their next Olympian.

I don't even think he gets second-rate talent, he has a lot of studs on the team, they just either seem to stagnate and/or get injured from what I see. He can get a lot of guys to run well (probably because they were good before they came to him) but they don't do it consistently or at the right times. But maybe that is just the nature of the sport... Kerr is going to be the true test for Mackey, he was fast before he came to Mackey and didn't have a history of getting injured, if he improves under Mackey then I will concede that maybe Mackey isn't complete booty cheeks as a coach, but if he runs a few flash-in-the-pan performances before stagnating or getting injured (like Loxsom, Kidder and Windle) then I would probably write him off.

A LOT