U of O Men: Rivaling their best Mid-D team Ever??

Time-wise, yes. These kids can time trial like absolute monsters. What the Centro/Wheating era has on them though is titles. No national titles amongst any of these kids, obviously COVID hasn't helped that. If they can win and get a few top 3 performances in a couple of the events: DMR, the mile indoors, possibly 3k, and the 1500 outdoors they'll be remembered more than if they just keep running fast times

My question is, would you put any of these guys on your all-time U of Oregon DMR? It’s a tough squad to make:

1200 - Andrew Wheating 2010

400 - Otis Davis 1960

800 - Joaquim Cruz 1984

1600 - Matt Centrowitz Jr. 2011

Tough competition even for the alternate spots, with Cheserek, Rupp, Michael Berry, Mac Fleet, Elijah Greer, Prefontaine, etc.

The current guys are faster in 1200/1600.

pace the guy wrote:

The current guys are faster in 1200/1600.

Heh, I don’t know about that.

Wheating was double 800/1500 NCAA champ in 2010, before running 1:44.56/3:30.9/3:51.7 that summer, all of which remained lifetime bests.

Centrowitz in 2011 was NCAA 1500 champ, then got the U.S. title outkicking Lagat, ran a pair of 3:34s in Europe, and won World Championship bronze in Daegu behind Asbel Kiprop and Silas Kiplagat.

They would both totally smoke not only Cole Hocker but even Jason Gomez of ISU over 1200m or 1600, with all due respect.

I figure Hocker and Teare are both 5k U.S. team prospects, ultimately.

I think the record was long overdue, dozens of teams have run sub 9:30 the past 8 years or so, and finally one of them beats the 9:24 mark from over a decade ago.

The relay was largely carried by the 1200 and 1600, but they weren't anything that ches couldn't have done, which ches did split a 3:54 or 3:55 a half hour after winning the 5k title. So I think they've got a long way to go to match the 2015 year of ches, jenkins, stinson, Geoghegan, Gregorek, Winn. From the mile to 5k, including DMR, they scored 70 points at the indoor NCAA championships to easily win the team title. That's the best mid-distance/distance group there's ever been in my opinion. Only one to rival it was one of the Arkansas teams back in the day.

How fast did they run 1200/1600 split in college?

I am Woman wrote:

How fast did they run 1200/1600 split in college?

Doesn’t really matter, pace the man/I am Woman, it’s obvious that they could have run faster than 2:49/3:54 based on their results in open 1500s later in the year.

Then it is also obvious that Hocker and Teare can go faster than those guys later in the year in the 1500 based on their 1200 and 1600 splits.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

I am Woman wrote:

How fast did they run 1200/1600 split in college?

Doesn’t really matter, pace the man/I am Woman, it’s obvious that they could have run faster than 2:49/3:54 based on their results in open 1500s later in the year.

I don’t know how obvious it is. Centro never ran faster than 3:41 in a college 1500. I don’t know that running 3:34 the summer after college necessarily means he was better than 2:49/3:54 during the winter. He ran the mile leg of a 926 dmr his senior year at pac12 indoors. Idk his split, but that’s a quick time so it seems likely that he was running close to all out and that that would be a good representation of what he could run at that time.

pace the guy wrote:

Then it is also obvious that Hocker and Teare can go faster than those guys later in the year in the 1500 based on their 1200 and 1600 splits.

No, this isn’t remotely logical. We know a 3:30.90 1500 runner can run faster than Hocker’s 2:49.89 because 3:30.9 is 2:48.72 pace. We don’t know that Cole Hocker will ever run 3:30.9, and can assume he’d have to improve significantly to do so.

Sure, maybe Wheating’s 3:30.9 was a few weeks past the cut-off, but like I said he was NCAA champ at both 800 & 1500, and an Olympian at 800 back in ‘08, so he was plenty threatening his entire senior year. I don’t really care about the “in the winter” thing, but today’s Oregon guys have every right to put in results later this spring and summer that might change my mind. As of now, I honestly don’t even see them in the same class (Treare is getting there, but needs an NCAA title or 3 and to mix it up at USAs).

They don't care about convincing you. All we can do is look at the stats. Wheating's indoor PR is 3:58. These guys would smoke him indoor if he was a 21 year old college runner today.

I am Woman wrote:

They don't care about convincing you. All we can do is look at the stats. Wheating's indoor PR is 3:58. These guys would smoke him indoor if he was a 21 year old college runner today.

You got that first part right, but you’re wrong about the rest. That’s fine.

Would like to see the group go sub 16 at Penn Relays. They have four or five guys that can run 3:55.

Fastest guys Oregon has ever had. World record already and more to follow. Those great before them will be knocked far down their top 10 list.

Wheating was like 6'6, he's not built for indoor track. And these relay team went out the next day and put down insane times - meaning they probably had more in the tank if necessary in the relay. The 800m leg was a negative split and the 1600 leg was a big negative split.

Seems from his Instagram that James West ran a 2:20 1k this weekend? Was that a meet or time trial? British record is 2:17

driving me crazy wrote:

Wheating was like 6'6, he's not built for indoor track. And these relay team went out the next day and put down insane times - meaning they probably had more in the tank if necessary in the relay. The 800m leg was a negative split and the 1600 leg was a big negative split.

Yeah and I’m sure Hocker was holding something back while getting beaten by the unheralded Iowa State guy ?

I’m not trying to disparage these guys at all and maybe they are collectively the best mid-d group ever, but no way am I putting them on the same level yet as Centro and Wheating as college seniors.

Except that their times are better. That is the metric that we use to determine who is better.

I am Woman wrote:

Except that their times are better.

See, that’s where we disagree. I think it’s apparent that Wheating and Centro were capable of about 2:45/3:50 for 1200/1600 as college seniors, respectively—maybe a couple ticks slower indoors. Additionally, I’m inclined to pick them for the all-time Oregon DMR—if your mind is capable of entertaining hypotheticals—because they proved themselves capable of winning titles on the big stage, not just impressive time trials during the weirdest year for running in recent memory. If you absolutely insist on rigid adherence to DMR splits, then you’re right, but you’re probably a total bore in conversation.

Again, I’m not saying that Oregon’s current guys won’t go on to do great things, or that I won’t be rooting for them, but they haven’t proven that they’re in the same tier as Centro and Wheating as college seniors. Get back to me when one runs 3:34, wins an NCAA title and places 4th at USAs, and then we can begin to talk.

You can stop switching back and forth between the two handles by the way.