".. it is nonsense to argue that performance enhancing drugs do not enhance performance. I would never make such a nonsense argument."(quote)
That is exactly the nonsense you have repeatedly argued, by maintaining it is only "faith" and "belief" - and thus not fact - that drugs enhance performance.
By definition, "performance enhancing drugs" can only include drugs that "enhance performance".
My arguments are much more intelligent than denying tautologies.
They only become nonsense after they make one loop through your brain, and come back out of your mouth.
You have repeatedly denied that drugs are performance-enhancing because you have said it is only "faith" and "belief" that they are. So drugs don't actually "enhance performance" - at least in your world.
The "tautology" that applies to your arguments is that they are stupid because they are stupid arguments. As we have just seen - you merely spout semantic rubbish.
You write this but all those Cold War era women’s records are standing firm. Valerie Adams’ lifetime best in the shot put is still just 183rd on the all-time list. It’s almost as if it was easier to dope 20-40 years ago than it is now.
Those Cold War records aren't standing firm. The only ones that remain from the early '80's are the women's 400m and 800m. There are records that still stand from the so-called "EPO era" of the '90s - when there was no test for the drug. The increase in testing in the last 20 or so years means that doping is more subtle today, through varieties of micro-dosing. (But that isn't the case in those countries that rarely test their athletes). As WADA heads have acknowledged - the dopers remain ahead of antidoping. It is everywhere and in all sports today.
100m 200m 400m 800m high jump long jump shot put discus 4x400 relay
All of these women’s outdoor world records stand and were set before 1990.
You can’t simultaneously argue that dopers are always ahead of the drug testers and that doping can’t be as rampant as it used to be. It’s one or the other.
100m 200m 400m 800m high jump long jump shot put discus 4x400 relay
All of these women’s outdoor world records stand and were set before 1990.
You can’t simultaneously argue that dopers are always ahead of the drug testers and that doping can’t be as rampant as it used to be. It’s one or the other.
All of those are much more helped by anabolic steroids than the drugs typically used by distance runners. Shocker, steroids were big with athletes back than. Especially with the Eastern block state sponsored doping program. There's a reason why Olympic weight lifting restarted all the records from back than. The argument isn't necessary that all the athletes were clean and now they're dirty. But let's look at the 10000 record from Ron Clarke in 60s to Henry Rono 10000 record in the 70s(two athletes I don't doubt are clean) aren't world's apart when you factor the minor changes from those two runners as far as shoes, track technology etc. But to go from the 10000 record being about 27 flat in the late 80s to almost a minute faster by the late 90s and other distance records falling by dramatic times looks suspicious. Especially when you consider once testing improves in Kenya catching dopers becomes like shooting fish in a barrel gives Kenya a huge black eye as far as how good naturally they actually are.
Those Cold War records aren't standing firm. The only ones that remain from the early '80's are the women's 400m and 800m. There are records that still stand from the so-called "EPO era" of the '90s - when there was no test for the drug. The increase in testing in the last 20 or so years means that doping is more subtle today, through varieties of micro-dosing. (But that isn't the case in those countries that rarely test their athletes). As WADA heads have acknowledged - the dopers remain ahead of antidoping. It is everywhere and in all sports today.
100m 200m 400m 800m high jump long jump shot put discus 4x400 relay
All of these women’s outdoor world records stand and were set before 1990.
You can’t simultaneously argue that dopers are always ahead of the drug testers and that doping can’t be as rampant as it used to be. It’s one or the other.
I don't argue that - WADA does. David Howman has said doping is still more sophisticated than antidoping - and so the dopers are ahead of testing. Athlete surveys in the last decade have shown that nearly one in two championship athletes were doping. Investigations have also indicated that there are a vast number of illicit substances available for which there is no test. The existence of older world records shows only that doping today isn't of the same nature as in the era when there was less testing. Today, it is undertaken largely through micro-dosing, to avoid triggering tests or the biopassport. But there is no doubt that it is more pervasive than ever. Professional and elite sport couldn't exist without it.
100m 200m 400m 800m high jump long jump shot put discus 4x400 relay
All of these women’s outdoor world records stand and were set before 1990.
You can’t simultaneously argue that dopers are always ahead of the drug testers and that doping can’t be as rampant as it used to be. It’s one or the other.
All of those are much more helped by anabolic steroids than the drugs typically used by distance runners. Shocker, steroids were big with athletes back than. Especially with the Eastern block state sponsored doping program. There's a reason why Olympic weight lifting restarted all the records from back than. The argument isn't necessary that all the athletes were clean and now they're dirty. But let's look at the 10000 record from Ron Clarke in 60s to Henry Rono 10000 record in the 70s(two athletes I don't doubt are clean) aren't world's apart when you factor the minor changes from those two runners as far as shoes, track technology etc. But to go from the 10000 record being about 27 flat in the late 80s to almost a minute faster by the late 90s and other distance records falling by dramatic times looks suspicious. Especially when you consider once testing improves in Kenya catching dopers becomes like shooting fish in a barrel gives Kenya a huge black eye as far as how good naturally they actually are.
I agree on Clarke and Rono, but Rono was also a full blown alcoholic when he was running record times. It certainly seems clear that with a few legal changes he could have run a lot faster.
All of those are much more helped by anabolic steroids than the drugs typically used by distance runners. Shocker, steroids were big with athletes back than. Especially with the Eastern block state sponsored doping program. T.
If EPO was around in the early 80s, those eastern block distance records might still be around🤣 Or whatever the Chinese we're taking in the 90s.
We don't have a good feel for what EPO does in elite guys. We do know it turns good guys (29min guys) into world class (27:40).
100m 200m 400m 800m high jump long jump shot put discus 4x400 relay
All of these women’s outdoor world records stand and were set before 1990.
You can’t simultaneously argue that dopers are always ahead of the drug testers and that doping can’t be as rampant as it used to be. It’s one or the other.
I don't argue that - WADA does. David Howman has said doping is still more sophisticated than antidoping - and so the dopers are ahead of testing. Athlete surveys in the last decade have shown that nearly one in two championship athletes were doping. Investigations have also indicated that there are a vast number of illicit substances available for which there is no test. The existence of older world records shows only that doping today isn't of the same nature as in the era when there was less testing. Today, it is undertaken largely through micro-dosing, to avoid triggering tests or the biopassport. But there is no doubt that it is more pervasive than ever. Professional and elite sport couldn't exist without it.
It can’t be more pervasive if it’s not possible to do it to the same degree before out of competition testing and the biological passport. You can’t just take steroids to your heart’s content during your training phase and then flush them out by the time the competition starts. Doping is still with us but it has been clamped down compared to decades ago.
Again the same arguments and the same players. Don't you all get tired duelling in circles? Ped's are illegal under T@F rules. Heaps of Kenyan long distance runners have been caught (distance running being the primary interest on this site). The runners that take the illegal drugs do it to run faster - to win money by fraud. They are rightly banned. The Kenya's may or may not have some genetic/cultural advantage - but who can tell when so many cheat? And, as an aside, it is better to ignore trolls, much as it is better to ignore a child having a tantrum.
Those Cold War records aren't standing firm. The only ones that remain from the early '80's are the women's 400m and 800m. There are records that still stand from the so-called "EPO era" of the '90s - when there was no test for the drug. The increase in testing in the last 20 or so years means that doping is more subtle today, through varieties of micro-dosing. (But that isn't the case in those countries that rarely test their athletes). As WADA heads have acknowledged - the dopers remain ahead of antidoping. It is everywhere and in all sports today.
100m 200m 400m 800m high jump long jump shot put discus 4x400 relay
All of these women’s outdoor world records stand and were set before 1990.
You can’t simultaneously argue that dopers are always ahead of the drug testers and that doping can’t be as rampant as it used to be. It’s one or the other.
Add javelin which definitely still would be Felke's 80.00 without the change of the event. Triple jump, pole vault, hammer throw were not part of the Olympics in the 80s, so the only none distance record which was bettered since is the 4x100 relay.
By definition, "performance enhancing drugs" can only include drugs that "enhance performance".
My arguments are much more intelligent than denying tautologies.
They only become nonsense after they make one loop through your brain, and come back out of your mouth.
You have repeatedly denied that drugs are performance-enhancing because you have said it is only "faith" and "belief" that they are. So drugs don't actually "enhance performance" - at least in your world.
The "tautology" that applies to your arguments is that they are stupid because they are stupid arguments. As we have just seen - you merely spout semantic rubbish.
Coevett's goalpost was "PEDs do not enhance performance".
You have a modifed goalpoast that "drugs are (not) performance-enhancing".
Neither of these statements accurately reflect my nuanced opinion. Some drugs can be PEDs, i.e. performance enhancing.
When you dumb down my arguments and rephrase them, out of context, that is the instant they become nonsense.
I don't argue that - WADA does. David Howman has said doping is still more sophisticated than antidoping - and so the dopers are ahead of testing. Athlete surveys in the last decade have shown that nearly one in two championship athletes were doping. Investigations have also indicated that there are a vast number of illicit substances available for which there is no test. The existence of older world records shows only that doping today isn't of the same nature as in the era when there was less testing. Today, it is undertaken largely through micro-dosing, to avoid triggering tests or the biopassport. But there is no doubt that it is more pervasive than ever. Professional and elite sport couldn't exist without it.
It can’t be more pervasive if it’s not possible to do it to the same degree before out of competition testing and the biological passport. You can’t just take steroids to your heart’s content during your training phase and then flush them out by the time the competition starts. Doping is still with us but it has been clamped down compared to decades ago.
It is easily more pervasive if it is more subtle and more sophisticated - and harder to detect. It may not be the "industrial strength" doping of the Cold War era but the numbers who dope will be just as significant. An athlete - in whatever sport - can't get to the top without it. It is known to be a billion dollar black market, with many substances available that are undetectable. Doping today has all the advantages of modern pharmaceutical knowledge that wasn't available in previous decades. It is also still the case that peds like testosterone, hgh and even EPO can be taken the night before competition and be flushed through an athlete's system by the time they are tested. Doping is known to present in all sports at elite levels - it is even in chess, championship darts and curling. World records are still being set in running - it is undoubtedly present in the sport.
100m 200m 400m 800m high jump long jump shot put discus 4x400 relay
All of these women’s outdoor world records stand and were set before 1990.
You can’t simultaneously argue that dopers are always ahead of the drug testers and that doping can’t be as rampant as it used to be. It’s one or the other.
Add javelin which definitely still would be Felke's 80.00 without the change of the event. Triple jump, pole vault, hammer throw were not part of the Olympics in the 80s, so the only none distance record which was bettered since is the 4x100 relay.
On the track alone the records that have been bettered since the Cold War era are the men's 100m, 200m, 400m, 4x100, 4x400, 800m, 1500m, 2k, 3k, 5k, 10k. On the women's side the 1500m, 3k, 5k and 10k have all been bettered. For men and women, all road distances have been progressively shattered. Doping works as well as it ever did.
You have repeatedly denied that drugs are performance-enhancing because you have said it is only "faith" and "belief" that they are. So drugs don't actually "enhance performance" - at least in your world.
The "tautology" that applies to your arguments is that they are stupid because they are stupid arguments. As we have just seen - you merely spout semantic rubbish.
Coevett's goalpost was "PEDs do not enhance performance".
You have a modifed goalpoast that "drugs are (not) performance-enhancing".
Neither of these statements accurately reflect my nuanced opinion. Some drugs can be PEDs, i.e. performance enhancing.
When you dumb down my arguments and rephrase them, out of context, that is the instant they become nonsense.
It is you who make them nonsense. Your opinions aren't nuanced - they are either dumb or dishonest.
Add javelin which definitely still would be Felke's 80.00 without the change of the event. Triple jump, pole vault, hammer throw were not part of the Olympics in the 80s, so the only none distance record which was bettered since is the 4x100 relay.
On the track alone the records that have been bettered since the Cold War era are the men's 100m, 200m, 400m, 4x100, 4x400, 800m, 1500m, 2k, 3k, 5k, 10k. On the women's side the 1500m, 3k, 5k and 10k have all been bettered. For men and women, all road distances have been progressively shattered. Doping works as well as it ever did.
Why haven't the dopers just figured out how to do as much as the Soviets, East Germans and Ma's Army did? Should be easy, right? These women have world record bonuses in their contracts and it's so easy to beat the doping police, right? Just take all juice they want and break a world record from the 80s. It's that easy, right?