WILL SERIOUS RUNNER GO HOME DEVASTATED?!You've probably heard of the World Famous Message Boards on Let's Run. But have you been brave enough to check it out...
Right. Damn shame message boards and social media weren't around to set the record straight when Ryun, Beamon, Moorcroft, et al. were doing their thing.
Maybe, . . .
No, not even maybe. Ryun, Beamon, and Moorcroft (not too mention Rono, Jonathon Edwards, and others) pulverized WR records, and only the most shamelessly dishonest knee-jerk cynics here would dare suggest any of them were doping.
Greatness happens, even if it's fleeting. To say otherwise is to reveal your ignorance of the sport's history.
And you're not an expert in any relevant field either; neither training, nor performance, nor doping of elite athletes!
But yet you shout from your Ivory tower that EPO doesn't work for elite athletes, criticize sports scientists & coaches who say EPO does work with elites and condemn any poster who suspects a WR performance, or any suspicious performance for that matter, of being doped.
You simply don't respect anyone else's opinion but expect people to give you their upmost respect & concession that doping doesn't work for elites.
Right. I'm only an anonymous follower of training, and elite performance, who reads a lot and occasionally quotes from experts, and provides publicly available data.
So that leaves really only one voice here who is a proven expert with personal experience on how to achieve elite performance, versus a lot of vocal anonymous non-experts with suspicions.
I am somewhat of an "expert" in the fields of math and science, but even then I don't expect you to take my word for it, or take it for granted.
When I make mathematical claims about performances, you don't need to listen to me, but you can confirm all of my claims for yourself, since the data, and my methods, are public and verifiable and refutable. Or you can chose to ignore them as irrelevant. But the historical data won't go away by ignoring me.
When I criticize studies for not being controlled or blinded according to the best practice for high quality studies -- you can ignore my criticisms, but that doesn't change the best practice, and doesn't cure these criticisms.
But you are also mistaken. I don't criticize "sports scientists & coaches who say EPO does work with elites", and furthermore, the few "expert" examples you gave don't really say "EPO does work with elites". They would like to, but they cannot. Again, you don't need to listen to me, but to listen better to them. They say things like "maybe" and "don't project our findings from amateurs onto elite performance". The best ones usually admit their own limitations explicitly.
I respect everyone's opinion, both expert and non-expert, to the extent there is data supporting it, and there is no other data contradicting it. If the data is lacking, I am reluctant to call such opinions "knowledge or fact", but rather "speculation, hypothesis, myth, belief, etc." This is not a lack of respect of opinion, but an indication of the quality of data behind it. I offer mine (implicitly) on the same terms. But still, everyone can take it or leave it. I'm not looking for acceptance or confirmation or belonging or popularity from anyone in this forum. I have no expectations from anyone here, except basic courtesy and honesty (as described in the Forum rules).
No one defends his ego like you do and at such length. You are the only one you convince.
I don't care as much as you do about what Canaday said about you, which you can't stop defending. With you I challenge your delusions, misinformation and lies. It is a public duty. There's a difference.
You see now you are the one who won't let it go?
I welcome your challenges, and even Canady's, if you(/he) can back it up with real world data and evidence and observations. Personal attacks and opinions provided without basis are not a substitute for a lack of substance and merit.
To describe you as an ignorant dolt - as he did - isn't inviting discussion.
Do you think all 4 of those runners are clean? (Kipyegon, Hassan, Tsegay, Muir)
Honestly? I believe Muir is. And if she was, the womens all-time list looks a lot more palatable and in line with the distribution we see with the men (and yes I know that list is heavily impacted by doping too but at least the lineup isn't massively fragmented at the top which leads me to think if we eliminated dopers that a clean list wouldn't be either).
To that point, very simplistically if we nixed all of the sub 3.27 guys we could have a top 4 that went
Morceli 3.27.37
Ngeny 3.28.12
Tim C 3.28.28
Jakob 3.28.32
That's less than a second separating the top 4 times ever which is more in line with what seems plausible. Not over 5 seconds with that adjusted list of clear dopers removed.
You believe Muir is doping? Based on what? That's she is fast? That's all you have?
Honestly? I believe Muir is. And if she was, the womens all-time list looks a lot more palatable and in line with the distribution we see with the men (and yes I know that list is heavily impacted by doping too but at least the lineup isn't massively fragmented at the top which leads me to think if we eliminated dopers that a clean list wouldn't be either).
To that point, very simplistically if we nixed all of the sub 3.27 guys we could have a top 4 that went
Morceli 3.27.37
Ngeny 3.28.12
Tim C 3.28.28
Jakob 3.28.32
That's less than a second separating the top 4 times ever which is more in line with what seems plausible. Not over 5 seconds with that adjusted list of clear dopers removed.
You believe Muir is doping? Based on what? That's she is fast? That's all you have?
So basically, you're just another idiot?
Try reading his post again. He said the exact opposite about Muir. He believes she is clean.
Honestly? I believe Muir is. And if she was, the womens all-time list looks a lot more palatable and in line with the distribution we see with the men (and yes I know that list is heavily impacted by doping too but at least the lineup isn't massively fragmented at the top which leads me to think if we eliminated dopers that a clean list wouldn't be either).
To that point, very simplistically if we nixed all of the sub 3.27 guys we could have a top 4 that went
Morceli 3.27.37
Ngeny 3.28.12
Tim C 3.28.28
Jakob 3.28.32
That's less than a second separating the top 4 times ever which is more in line with what seems plausible. Not over 5 seconds with that adjusted list of clear dopers removed.
You believe Muir is doping? Based on what? That's she is fast? That's all you have?
So basically, you're just another idiot?
letsrun at his best. Have you even read the comment you are commenting?
Apologies to Salvitore. So the main idiot is just you?
I expressed essentially the same view about Muir as he did. You are really showing yourself up here. I think we can see who the idiot is.
You expressed Muir might be clean and that anybody reaching a final is a doper. Without a last rest of some doubt, you are the most stupid and ignorant poster on this board.
No way Muir is clean. She ran sub 3:55 which is a clear indication that she's on drugs. At least according to some posters anyway.
So what's up this 3:55 some posters keep citing?
Is this some kind of magical barrier that's impossible for a clean women to obtain?
There's really no evidence to support any suspicion of doping on Kipyegon or Muir...period. They're are just super talented runners that have benefited from state of the art training methods, excellent nutrition & super shoes.
The real dopers were the Russian track & field women as part a sophisticated State-sponsored doping program. The coaches utilized a tactical-doping program for their mid-D runners which comprised of blood doping (primarily an ESA) & anabolic steroids (primarily Turinbol & Anavar).
Many of their Olympic, WC & EC medalists from the time of the ABP implementation (2009) through 2015 were flagged for, and subsequently banned for hematological anomalies.
And as the re-testing of samples starting occurring a few years, more Russian women were testing positive for Turinbol (which chemically is similar to Dianabol).
I personally don't think the Russian women were that talented to begin with. However, PEDs are very powerful with female athletes - more so than with men. Particularly anabolic steroids & testosterone are potent PEDs that can improve a women's performance dramatically. The increase they get from their artificially-boosted testosterone levels is substantial with just low doses (women have about one-tenth the testosterone levels men have).
The increase in testosterone levels produce stronger muscles & bones, increase strength & power, increase aggressiveness, improve recovery, reduce injuries - and androgens induce Erthrocythosis which can increase Hct 7%--10%.
These donkeys were turned into racehorses & we witnessed their phony performances throughout the years.
Fortunately the Russian State-sponsored doping problem was exposed by a whistleblower & it all came crashing down after the WADA investigation. Their Empire collapsed & most of the Russian women medal winners have been busted with those runners banned & the results disqualified.
There's your real dopers in women's track & field.
And he has. And the link was posted. So now you know.
you are a Kenyan and you live at altitude ---> EPO doesn't give any benefit
He has never said this. Now you know.
Derp Derp - just admit EPO works, and Canava is either out of touch or running interference. You can split hairs all you want, but Canava is not giving out reliable information.
oh bull crap ! state of the art training methods and nutrition my foot! if the russians doped,so do they! considering theyre just as fast or faster than them,and no more talented.i dont believe muir or kipyegon are better trained,better fed or more talented than the russians,and they would be on similar drugs.a clean british woman and clean kenyan would not be as good,or better than a juiced up russian,considering how hard the russians train..
oh bull crap ! state of the art training methods and nutrition my foot! if the russians doped,so do they! considering theyre just as fast or faster than them,and no more talented.i dont believe muir or kipyegon are better trained,better fed or more talented than the russians,and they would be on similar drugs.a clean british woman and clean kenyan would not be as good,or better than a juiced up russian,considering how hard the russians train..
Calm down Jeff & let me further explain.
The ABP has been a game changer with the hematological & steroidal modules preventing full-throttle doping. It's my understanding, however, that it can't detect microdosing...yet.
However, microdosing with EPO doesn't produce great results. Hct isn't raised that much & an athlete could probably get the same increase with altitude training.
It's full-throttle doping with EPO before the ABP & a no reliable test for EPO that produced all those crazy results seen in the past.
Remember those Chinese girls - Mau's army or something like that? They were going nuclear on full-throttle EPO in the 90s smashing records & stealing medals like crazy. It was a clown show watching them. Lol.
Remember 1500m specialist Mastakova from Russia? She's was tearing it up in the 90s on full-throttle EPO. A big, muscular women running very fast times - yeah right.
Secondly, the anabolic steroid testing has gotten so much better over the last several years it's virtually impossible for the dopers not to get caught.
Even microdoses of anabolic steroids & synthetic testosterone will be picked up. The glow time for these compounds lasts for months now. The CIR test is amazing technology that detect very small amounts of synthetic testosterone among naturally occurring testosterone.
When this new technology came on line, WADA re-tested all those samples from the Russian medal winners that passed the controls back then. And look what happen - the new testing was detecting the androgens they using like crazy.
Small amounts of anabolic steroids & testosterone will definitely benefit a female. However, it will be detected in today's more sophisticated drug controls. So, they can't get away with it. And with the steroidal module, a case could presented even if there's failed drug test.
So, I submit to you that if Muir or Faith are doping they would have tested positive or have their ABP flagged.
This is the best evidence for women runners right now:
Pass a controls or no ABP flag - clean.
Fail a control or an ABP flag - dirty.
Have a great day Jeff & remember not every fast female runner is doping.
youre forgetting a few things.microdosing is a myth,and most top athletes are still full on nuclear leval doping.drug testing is a joke,it only pays lip service and only catches russians,belorussians and an indian or two.sport is corrupt,and people want world records,and gold medals.most countries that can,protect their doped athletes,and doped sporting systems,as do the sponsors.blind eyes are turned everywhere,so long as it gets results.im pretty sure bribary is also involved,and wherever there is money,and a market to be had,there is doping.
I expressed essentially the same view about Muir as he did. You are really showing yourself up here. I think we can see who the idiot is.
You expressed Muir might be clean and that anybody reaching a final is a doper. Without a last rest of some doubt, you are the most stupid and ignorant poster on this board.
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