Training in racing flats?

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When I had Achilles problems last year the school trainer gave me a heel cup to wear. I'll tell you what I think about them and what happen. The heel cup only elevates the heel so the tendon doesn't have to strech as far while running and walking. If you use the heel cup, then don't have problems, and take out the heel cup this would bring back the problem. The heel cup "shortens" the Achilles tendon so you are stuck needing to wear the cup for the rest of your running days. One day I just took the heel cup out and put both heels on the same level. I wore my running shoes constantly so the tendon could ajust and gradually got back into running. Now I don't have any problems unless I switch from a high heeled shoe to a low heeled shoe (which I did).

PS Do heel raises (or use a Dick Hartzell stretch band) everyday to strengthed the tendon and calf. AND NEVER PUT ICE ON IT!

why no ice?

The more you think about it the more it makes sense. This is the analogy I was told. If you put a rubber band on ice will it stretch? Not very well. If you ice an Achilles it will slow recovery (I really don't know how or why, to tell you the truth). Ice will also let scare tissue stick around longer. You need heat, circulation, and movement for it to heal. Not RICE. I strongly urge people to try this. Recovery is much quicker!

I have switched over to flats (Adidas Cubatos) recently after getting over an injury (which went well). About a week ago I started getting shin splints or posterior tibial syndrome to be specific. I've only been doing mileage in the 30's lately. Also, I'm "forced" to run on cement and roads mostly. Any info on how to get rid of shin splints?

PS I was happy with the switch to flats and am injury free besides the shin splints (which may not be from the switch since I had the same problem with trainers last year).

Any info will be much appreciated.

the cement is a killer -- anyway to get off it will do.

additionally, I always recommend barefoot walking/running on grass. I had to do endless loops, but about three times a week you'd see me at the softball field at SFSU running for about 50min on the grass, my shoes cast aside. that was huge for me in terms of gaining strength.

it should come -- one of my friends runs about 1/3 his 125mpw (all the road work) in the H Street (the rest is in the Onitsuka Limber Up) and he's been injury free.

So what are good flats to try if I'm transitioning from trainers with orthotics? Should I go straight to the H Street or try something with more support. I land midfoot, but my toes point out a little causing some overpronation. I've been running in the Frees some and like them. The forefoot on the Revolvers isn't flexible enough for me. I've always found the forefoot on the DS Racers kind of hard, but I'm not ruling them out. My hipflexor/butt area is kind of sore.

if you jump right into the H Streets you're going to spend a lot of time being sore and not a lot of time running -- you just won't be able to.

What I recommend is finding a road flat that works for you and just start spending time in it. Make sure that when you run you're stable in it and it's comfortable. I'd start with short runs, walking around in it everywhere, etc. I did that with the Tiger Paw and now I've got 800-900 miles on two pair and they feel great.

Combine this with running on grass whenever possilbe. Start with 10min 2-3 times/wk and buildup from there. It will increase your strength and efficiency making you better abled to run in the flat and less reliant on the orthodic

see if you can get jaguar1 to respond -- she came from a similar background and now is running in the H street

BTW -- I will tell you that when I was able to run full time in the Tiger Paw I wasn't yet able to do serious workouts in them yet. It ended up being about 2.5mos before I could run hard for a long time in them, and even then the H street was very taxing on my soleous. After more time of barefoot running, compressing the Tiger Paw and walking everywhere in the H street, I can run in them just fine

Thanks for the advice! How does the Tiger Paw compare with the DS-Racer? Any transition shoes other than the Tiger Paw that you would suggest?

The Nike Streak Vapor will work well too. I alternate between the Vapor and the Spectrum Plus.

Through 2003, the Tiger Paw and the Ds-Racer were the exact same midsole, except the DS had the dual-density post, and some plastic bridging around the underside of the midfoot -- then they had different outsoles and different uppers.

2004 on they are more different than before. Still the Tiger-Paw is the unposted flat and the DS is heavier and more substantial than before. The midsoles are less similar, but both are very soft -- you're more likely to pronate or -- if you're less than perfect as far as biomechanics, the new Asics racers are likely to give you problems. But try them and see what comes. the upside is that if you fit well in the Asics trainers, you should fit fine in the racers -- no banana lasts.

Racers that have more quality midsoles:

-adidas Cubato (great flat, minimal drop, but the banana last and the decoupled heel may bother some people)

-Nike Air Streak Vapor IV (incredible midsole durability, but fairly narrow; andother banana last)

-Nike Streak Spectrum Plus (fine shoe, PR and MK's shoe, perhaps a little snug -- just make sure you look good in it)

-Mizuno Wave Revolver (cheap, wide, simple -- midsole doesn't seem too soft)

-NB RC 750/950 (these two are low [esp. the 950], and the 750 has a small stability plub; but again you've got a very curved/banana last)

-NB RC 550 (a little more substantial than the above two but if it works it works; it will require a somewhat more neutral footstrike given the higher midsole [10/20], friendly fit)

-NB RC 205 (Khannouchi's flat, very thin, should fit most)

-NB RC 150 (one of the best ever, ultra thin, pretty narrow and no longer in production)

-Reebok Premier Competition (outsoleay go fast, but the midsole should be pretty durable, narrow heel cup, all mesh upper is nice, neoprene sock liner)

-Puma H Street (one of the best shoes ever made; the only real hang up is the passive and soft outsole -- but easily resolable. It's fit both wide and narrow because of the looseness of the mesh upper)

-Just about any Japanese shoe under the elite racer category:

http://www.asics.co.jp/products/running/index.html

http://catalog.mizuno.co.jp/catalog/product/product_category.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474395181631&seFlg=1&folder2=Running_Shoes&bmUID=1095312678625

-And of course, most any LD track spike that's had it's track spike shaved off and a rubber outsole attatched (essentially, an H Street).

I'll add to this if there's anything that I've missed. Things like the Mayfly are fine, a little thicker than I'd like, but better than a training shoe and very durable (despite the adverts).

I generally like Mizuno shoes a lot, but there is something about the Revolver that bothers me. I think it may be the lack of flexibility in the forefoot. I wish that we could get those Japanese Mizuno flats.

Will the banana shape lead to more pronation if I'm prone to do that due to my hip/knee/leg/ankle angles? Or am I ok in the Streak Vapor or Cubato or something like that? I do believe that I need some arch support while a make the transition so I'm not to sure what to do.

Thanks for your help!

in those cases, no the banana last will not lead to more pronation -- just a more peculiar fit.

Now, in the case of the Zoom Streak XC, the softeness of the midsole, coupled with the narrowness of the heel and the slice the take off the inside of the midfoot makes that shoe more likely to cause you to overpronate

I've ran 100-140 miles a week in Nike Triax TCs and Pegasus Racers (even ran in the superlight Vengeance for a time). Maybe 20-40 miles of that on grass/trail. Switched to flats after an achilles injury. No more injury. Then switched to lightweight trainers and got an IT Band injury (NB 831). Moral: I should stay with very simple light trainers. Note on the NB 831: it has a small layer of softer outside heel foam that could have been the cause of the IT injury by producing too much lateral stress on the knee/hip (foam could cause the foot to tilt inward too much, even more so considering I tend to wear the f*** out of the outside of the heels).

Alan

trackhead, how is the cubato plus, is it nearly identical to cubato?

different upper, essentially the same. I haven't seen it in person, though.

This is one heck of a thread.

try these!!!

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