"Pandemic of the unvaccinated" CONFIRMED

No they aren't and we should not be telling the kids they are a threat to everyone around them. Your stance is wrong, unproven and kind of disgusting. Tick tock goes the clock, this BS narrative is not going to last much longer.

well actually wrote:

The Clown Show wrote:

See my post above.

Not a single one of the studies you are referring to are peer reviewed. NOT ONE.

Several of the studies are peer reviewed. The only study that is still being peer reviewed is the study that showed that asymptomatic vaccinated are more likely to spread the virus than asymptomatic unvaccinated. Also, the burden of proof is on you to show that being vaccinated and masking has a positive effect and not a negative effect to those around you.

Correct, unproven assumptions should not be used to force actions on a population. The Bro, Harambe Clown Show are engaged in the "cuckoo science" of assuming their beliefs are fact and should be enforced. It is like the crusades all over again.

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

well actually wrote:

Several of the studies are peer reviewed. The only study that is still being peer reviewed is the study that showed that asymptomatic vaccinated are more likely to spread the virus than asymptomatic unvaccinated. Also, the burden of proof is on you to show that being vaccinated and masking has a positive effect and not a negative effect to those around you.

Correct, unproven assumptions should not be used to force actions on a population. The Bro, Harambe Clown Show are engaged in the "cuckoo science" of assuming their beliefs are fact and should be enforced. It is like the crusades all over again.

The basic assumptions of immunity and epidemiology are not unproven.

Unless you are asserting your standard “we don’t have proof” line.

This. And the sad irony of the antivaxx, conspiracy theorist, "red pillers" digging their own graves deeper, when the exit is right in front of them.

And this.

But, yes, LFH and the like: continue to deflect, pivot and offload third-hand-sourced links that continue your confirmation bias. Continue to self serve your own fears and lack of moral, ethical and personal character to confront the problems facing society and your fellow man. You are, suddenly in 2020-21, lifetimes beyond the rest of us sheep, since the Red Pill solved all your problems. We're the ones in the wrong, us and NEARLY EVERY DEGREED MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL [cue DanM to drop a heavily biased blog's coverage of a quack doctor supporting antivaxx positions].

Get the vax, tough guys, and move on with your lives. Spend less time online and Letsrun, please.

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

It is like the crusades all over again.

If that were true then there would be very very real consequences for your stupidity. More than just not being able to go to a football game.

Alas we'll just have to settle for mandates that keep you lot locked at home.

And 80% of all hospitalizations due to Covid are involving obese people. 80%. Per the CDC. The root of the problem.

https://tenor.com/bDE8R.gif

Here's the hard part of the obesity fact that's thrown around. Indeed, a prelim study found that 78% of hospitalizations were for people who were overweight or obese:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/covid-cdc-study-finds-roughly-78percent-of-people-hospitalized-were-overweight-or-obese.html

BUT - you want to guess at what percentage of Americans are overweight or obese? It's 73.6%!

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/obesity-overweight.htm

So, the population of hospitalized COVID patients is just a representative sample of Americans. There's no clear causation here. If you have a representative chunk of Americans in the hospital for ANY reason, then 74% of them will be overweight or obese. That doesn't mean being overweight is the prime reason they are hospitalized.

Imagine if you went to Norway, where 55% of the population has blue eyes and then you made the claim that "the majority of hospitalized COVID patients in Norway have blue eyes. Having blue eyes is the problem! If you don't have blue eyes you're safe!"

See the problem?

Now, obviously, being overweight is not going to help here and is considered an underlying condition. But we just don't know how much of a factor it is, how it plays in with other conditions, age, etc. We just don't have good data on that yet.

It's just all so nuanced and complex. We need to be careful to avoid sweeping generalizations if we want to have any sort of rational conversation.

Even if obesity promotes severe disease, it’s a hard problem to tackle. We have no good weight loss interventions that act fast, are durable, and are as effective as the vaccines.

We should absolutely spend more on anti-obesity health but it’s not gonna be a problem we tackle in the time frame of the pandemic.

2600 bro wrote:

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

Correct, unproven assumptions should not be used to force actions on a population. The Bro, Harambe Clown Show are engaged in the "cuckoo science" of assuming their beliefs are fact and should be enforced. It is like the crusades all over again.

The basic assumptions of immunity and epidemiology are not unproven.

Unless you are asserting your standard “we don’t have proof” line.

The assumption that masks are now significantly helpful? Not Proven, and goes against traditional assumptions.

The assumption that mass vaccination provides a significantly better outcome than solely vaxing the vulnerable? No proven and not conventional epidemiology.

The assumption the Bro 2600 is insane? Almost proven, this study in ongoing and the results are pending.

I know I'm not gonna convince the people with these busted arguments. They aren't looking to change their mind, nor do they think their dumb arguments actually defend their insane position.

The goal is just to avoid letting their total BS go un-rebutted. There's so much denier and fearmonger spam on these boards that it starts to look like the consensus if nobody says anything.

Thankfully their arguments are very, very easy to deconstruct.

Biden said Trump "should not remain as President of the United States of America" back on 10/23 because 220,000 Americans had died from the coronavirus

250,000 Americans are now dead on Biden's watch despite him having multiple highly effective vaccines from his day 1 in office.

Two weeks ago Joe Biden was flooding this country with unvaxxed Afghan refugees and now it’s unvaxxed Haitian refugees.

But you deserve to lose your job if you don’t take the vaax.

They on the other hand, will get full government benefits, vaaxed or not.

Banana republic.

You are correct, you are not going to convince people with your busted arguments and skewed interpretation of available data, no you are not. You might want to simply try sound reasoning rather than distorting and stretching the interpretation of reality.

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

Harambe wrote:

I know I'm not gonna convince the people with these busted arguments. They aren't looking to change their mind, nor do they think their dumb arguments actually defend their insane position.

The goal is just to avoid letting their total BS go un-rebutted. There's so much denier and fearmonger spam on these boards that it starts to look like the consensus if nobody says anything.

Thankfully their arguments are very, very easy to deconstruct.

You are correct, you are not going to convince people with your busted arguments and skewed interpretation of available data, no you are not. You might want to simply try sound reasoning rather than distorting and stretching the interpretation of reality.

The goal is to not let your BS go unrebutted.

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

The basic assumptions of immunity and epidemiology are not unproven.

Unless you are asserting your standard “we don’t have proof” line.

The assumption that masks are now significantly helpful? Not Proven, and goes against traditional assumptions.

The assumption that mass vaccination provides a significantly better outcome than solely vaxing the vulnerable? No proven and not conventional epidemiology.

The assumption the Bro 2600 is insane? Almost proven, this study in ongoing and the results are pending.

You're getting your wires crossed.

Basic assumptions such as reducing the numbers of infected people or reducing social contacts or creating immune populations through vaccination are beneficial for suppressing a pandemic virus... If you dispute these - where do we start?

Stuff like universal masking the general public is a relatively new idea in many places. Luckily people who are smart and care ran a giant RCT on universal public masking and found it suppress transmission!

I don't really know what you are getting at here. Your arguments usually end with some form of "we don't know for certain, therefore the status quo is the best option"

We never have complete certainty...

The status quo is 700k dead Americans...

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

You are correct, you are not going to convince people with your busted arguments and skewed interpretation of available data, no you are not. You might want to simply try sound reasoning rather than distorting and stretching the interpretation of reality.

The goal is to not let your BS go unrebutted.

What do you stand for anymore? Aside from just blind contrarianism to the "establishment."

Honest question.

I've seen this descent in aging people before. It's interesting psychology... fear slowly consumes the rational parts of the brain.

Just crunched the latest numbers on Israel. Unvaccinated are 9.75x more likely to get a serious case of COVID, and these numbers continue to be on the upswing. They're also backed up in cases.

2600 bro wrote:

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

The goal is to not let your BS go unrebutted.

What do you stand for anymore? Aside from just blind contrarianism to the "establishment."

Honest question.

I've seen this descent in aging people before. It's interesting psychology... fear slowly consumes the rational parts of the brain.

I am not afraid of covid nor do I think younger people should be. You are the one demanding young people be afraid and be forced to take actions that neither make sense nor are scientifically supported. The only thing I stand for is common sense, freedom to debate, and not doing a mass experiment with experimental vaccines on our youth population (the future of humanity). You are so scared of covid you need this entire population to take a huge risk to give you extra comfort. The vaccines work, you are safe, you do not need to experiment with the children.

You just can't HELP but throw red herring grenades into any conversation, hoping the collateral damage will somehow help your slipping position.

“comforting delusion and unrealistic optimism bias” in full display the last few weeks by the antivaxx crowd here. Like plane in free fall.

But please just tell us how this guy is part of the conspiracy, and you guys aren't caught, hook, line and sinker, as so many have before you:

Lead Foil Hat XVI wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

What do you stand for anymore? Aside from just blind contrarianism to the "establishment."

Honest question.

I've seen this descent in aging people before. It's interesting psychology... fear slowly consumes the rational parts of the brain.

I am not afraid of covid nor do I think younger people should be. You are the one demanding young people be afraid and be forced to take actions that neither make sense nor are scientifically supported. The only thing I stand for is common sense, freedom to debate, and not doing a mass experiment with experimental vaccines on our youth population (the future of humanity). You are so scared of covid you need this entire population to take a huge risk to give you extra comfort. The vaccines work, you are safe, you do not need to experiment with the children.

No you are very scared of and uncertainty or change.

Even with overwhelming data from millions of vaccine doses you still default to fear and suspicion.

You would gladly sacrifice more Americans to avoid admitting the vaccines are safe and effective.