Only gullible targets of Western propaganda think:
1. Russian soldiers are going into towns and blowing up people's homes.
The "gullible targets of Western propaganda" understands full well that the Russians have artillery, missiles, and aerial bombardment capabilities with which to blow up people's homes.
Only gullible targets of Western propaganda think:
1. Russian soldiers are going into towns and blowing up people's homes.
The "gullible targets of Western propaganda" understands full well that the Russians have artillery, missiles, and aerial bombardment capabilities with which to blow up people's homes.
Wait, but here in Russia we are being told that all structures are targets.
Imagine an American typing Putin invaded a sovereign nation and committed war crimes without being ironic!
Ever heard of Iraq? Syria? Somalia? Yemen?
Wait. So you agree the Russia invaded a sovereign nation and is committing war crimes, but that it’s okay because the US has elsewhere? I’m sure that’s a good enough reason for the average Ukrainian.
Imagine an American typing Putin invaded a sovereign nation and committed war crimes without being ironic!
Ever heard of Iraq? Syria? Somalia? Yemen?
Wait. So you agree the Russia invaded a sovereign nation and is committing war crimes, but that it’s okay because the US has elsewhere? I’m sure that’s a good enough reason for the average Ukrainian.
That is literally Carmine's only argument along with Ernest, and Adult in the room, who should wake up pretty soon and post another 1000 times today.
Imagine an American typing Putin invaded a sovereign nation and committed war crimes without being ironic!
Ever heard of Iraq? Syria? Somalia? Yemen?
Wait. So you agree the Russia invaded a sovereign nation and is committing war crimes, but that it’s okay because the US has elsewhere? I’m sure that’s a good enough reason for the average Ukrainian.
I do not know they are committing war crimes.
Nothing they have done is near US "Shock and Awe" policy of mass murder of non combatants.
You don't understand the hypocrisy of our pols and media cheering on US invasions while slamming Russia for this?
The human race is so screwed up they can't even get war right. If an individual commits a crime any place in the world they are punished when caught. The same should hold true for any individual including the leader of country. Rule of war be damned. Putin and any other leader who initiates a premeditated attack should be severely punished immediately. This doesn't happen due to the twisted logic that the replacement might be worse than the eliminated person. BS. How is the murder of hundreds more moral than killing off a few azwhol leaders until a good one comes along.?
You haven't added anything to this discussion yet. Let's see... Russia decided to invade a sovereign nation and commit a bunch of war crimes, so yes, I think it's entirely fair to blame things on the Russians. If they didn't want the world to realize they're subhuman garbage, then maybe they should have gone around acting like subhuman garbage.
You're right. You said a decree by Zelensky was part of a plan to dehumanize and demonize the Russian army, Russia, and Russian people. If Russia can just conscript anybody in the Russia into the army, as they just did with 130,000 people, then aren't all Russians legitimate targets? I mean, how is anybody supposed to distinguish a normal Russian civilian from future murderous Russian soldier? If the Russian invaders didn't want to be demonized, then maybe they should do one good thing with their pathetic lives and start firing missiles into Moscow until Putin and all of his buddies are buried under the rubble of the Kremlin.
I am bringing in realistic, humanitarian and pacifistic approach, aimed st solving the problem and preventing similar future catastrophes, unlike blood thirsty mob prevailing this forum.
You keep spouting insults without any reason. They are not worse, or better than any other country/army attacking someone.
Russia (not Russians, not Putin) invaded Ukraine without obvious aggressive provocation. It is undeniable. The thing is, there are many obvious issues that made it be "now, or never" issue for Russia, in regard to national security and vital interests of the country, as well as of Russian minority living in Ukraine. Russia simply did not have soft power means of defense to respond to soft power agression coming through Ukraine as a proxy of USA, but could not let it unanswered.
What you write about distinction btw Russian civilians and conscripted soldiers, has no logic. Outside of combat zone it is easy Army sits in their barracks, civilians are in their homes. It gets complicated when in combat zone someone intentionally make armed forces indistinguishable from civilians.
I do not know how conscription works in Russia, but principle of serving armies is that every couple of months new generation is recruited. They have couple months of training, serve for a year or so, then go home to stay in "reserve". So, these 130000 new ones are probably just new generation, they will probably never see the combat, excepth tose who volunteer.
Why don't USA (and any other country) army fire missiles on Washington and Pentagon, there is surely no lack of reasons and motives? Because it is not the job Army does.
Wait. So you agree the Russia invaded a sovereign nation and is committing war crimes, but that it’s okay because the US has elsewhere? I’m sure that’s a good enough reason for the average Ukrainian.
I do not know they are committing war crimes.
Nothing they have done is near US "Shock and Awe" policy of mass murder of non combatants.
You don't understand the hypocrisy of our pols and media cheering on US invasions while slamming Russia for this?
Or don' care?
The only way you don't know they are committing war crimes is by getting all your news from Russia Times. But, your willful ignorance doesn't mean that Russians aren't committing war crimes.
I don't really give two sh*ts about what "our" politicians and media are saying. I care about Putin sending Russians into another country where they kill, bomb, and murder civilians. I also care about trolls like you trying to justify it.
You haven't added anything to this discussion yet. Let's see... Russia decided to invade a sovereign nation and commit a bunch of war crimes, so yes, I think it's entirely fair to blame things on the Russians. If they didn't want the world to realize they're subhuman garbage, then maybe they should have gone around acting like subhuman garbage.
You're right. You said a decree by Zelensky was part of a plan to dehumanize and demonize the Russian army, Russia, and Russian people. If Russia can just conscript anybody in the Russia into the army, as they just did with 130,000 people, then aren't all Russians legitimate targets? I mean, how is anybody supposed to distinguish a normal Russian civilian from future murderous Russian soldier? If the Russian invaders didn't want to be demonized, then maybe they should do one good thing with their pathetic lives and start firing missiles into Moscow until Putin and all of his buddies are buried under the rubble of the Kremlin.
I am bringing in realistic, humanitarian and pacifistic approach, aimed st solving the problem and preventing similar future catastrophes, unlike blood thirsty mob prevailing this forum.
You keep spouting insults without any reason. They are not worse, or better than any other country/army attacking someone.
Russia (not Russians, not Putin) invaded Ukraine without obvious aggressive provocation. It is undeniable. The thing is, there are many obvious issues that made it be "now, or never" issue for Russia, in regard to national security and vital interests of the country, as well as of Russian minority living in Ukraine. Russia simply did not have soft power means of defense to respond to soft power agression coming through Ukraine as a proxy of USA, but could not let it unanswered.
What you write about distinction btw Russian civilians and conscripted soldiers, has no logic. Outside of combat zone it is easy Army sits in their barracks, civilians are in their homes. It gets complicated when in combat zone someone intentionally make armed forces indistinguishable from civilians.
I do not know how conscription works in Russia, but principle of serving armies is that every couple of months new generation is recruited. They have couple months of training, serve for a year or so, then go home to stay in "reserve". So, these 130000 new ones are probably just new generation, they will probably never see the combat, excepth tose who volunteer.
Why don't USA (and any other country) army fire missiles on Washington and Pentagon, there is surely no lack of reasons and motives? Because it is not the job Army does.
Good. Then you agree that the most humanitarian and pacifistic approach would have been for Russians to not invade in the first place. But, they instead decided to NOT be humanitarian or pacifistic and invade a sovereign country because "Nazis" or "NATO" or whatever other reason Putin decided.
The soldiers coming from Russia are RUSSIAN. Therefore, RUSSIANS have invaded Ukraine. Maybe RUSSIA should have decided on NEVER. They damn well could have let it go unanswered. Putin decided not to. He sent a bunch of RUSSIANS to invade the Ukraine.
If Russia is just going to appoint people as soldiers without giving them a choice, then any Russian is a potential soldier. Seems the only right choice is to target them all. There's a lot you don't know.
Russia (not Russians, not Putin) invaded Ukraine without obvious aggressive provocation. It is undeniable. The thing is, there are many obvious issues that made it be "now, or never" issue for Russia, in regard to national security and vital interests of the country, as well as of Russian minority living in Ukraine. Russia simply did not have soft power means of defense to respond to soft power agression coming through Ukraine as a proxy of USA, but could not let it unanswered.
Why not? You suggest that the invasion was a "now or never" situation, but why would you, as a self-proclaimed pacifist, so easily dismiss "never" invading as an option.
Increasing democratization of Ukraine, potentially leading to eventual acceptance into the EU or even NATO are a threat to the Putin regime, but are they a threat to the sovereignty of the Russian people?
It's not at all clear how invading Ukraine actually has or was supposed to benefit the people of Russia while there are obvious motives for the Russian power brokers.
Also, Russia is an authoritarian autocracy, under Putin's control, so distinguishing between Russia and Putin directing the invasion seems a meaningless rhetorical distinction.
Good. Then you agree that the most humanitarian and pacifistic approach would have been for Russians to not invade in the first place. But, they instead decided to NOT be humanitarian or pacifistic and invade a sovereign country because "Nazis" or "NATO" or whatever other reason Putin decided.
The soldiers coming from Russia are RUSSIAN. Therefore, RUSSIANS have invaded Ukraine. Maybe RUSSIA should have decided on NEVER. They damn well could have let it go unanswered. Putin decided not to. He sent a bunch of RUSSIANS to invade the Ukraine.
If Russia is just going to appoint people as soldiers without giving them a choice, then any Russian is a potential soldier. Seems the only right choice is to target them all. There's a lot you don't know.
You speak mostly angry BS, from outright hatred, mixing causes with consequences.
Potential soldiers are not soldiers. People in combat zone, not wearing uniform, with card blanche to kill and with guns in hand, or within reach are not civilians.
For current world order it would be better if they did not attack. For peoples of Ukraine and Russia, in material sense, it would also be better. However, there is more to life than material wealth. Russians sre not uninformed They even visit LR forum. They could find for themselves how western public opinion was built against them in prior years and decades.
I am serious when I say, Russia decided that confronting imperialist powers of world domination is more worthy, than comfortable way of life. I do not say that Russian leadership and oligarchy don't have personal materialist motives, but those are only secondary.
Good. Then you agree that the most humanitarian and pacifistic approach would have been for Russians to not invade in the first place. But, they instead decided to NOT be humanitarian or pacifistic and invade a sovereign country because "Nazis" or "NATO" or whatever other reason Putin decided.
The soldiers coming from Russia are RUSSIAN. Therefore, RUSSIANS have invaded Ukraine. Maybe RUSSIA should have decided on NEVER. They damn well could have let it go unanswered. Putin decided not to. He sent a bunch of RUSSIANS to invade the Ukraine.
If Russia is just going to appoint people as soldiers without giving them a choice, then any Russian is a potential soldier. Seems the only right choice is to target them all. There's a lot you don't know.
You speak mostly angry BS, from outright hatred, mixing causes with consequences.
Potential soldiers are not soldiers. People in combat zone, not wearing uniform, with card blanche to kill and with guns in hand, or within reach are not civilians.
For current world order it would be better if they did not attack. For peoples of Ukraine and Russia, in material sense, it would also be better. However, there is more to life than material wealth. Russians sre not uninformed They even visit LR forum. They could find for themselves how western public opinion was built against them in prior years and decades.
I am serious when I say, Russia decided that confronting imperialist powers of world domination is more worthy, than comfortable way of life. I do not say that Russian leadership and oligarchy don't have personal materialist motives, but those are only secondary.
Yeah, I agree in that when they dress up little children, moms, and grandmothers to look like soldiers they have to shoot them.
What would anyone expect would happen in that situation?
The only way you don't know they are committing war crimes is by getting all your news from Russia Times. ...
That should be Russian Today (RT).
"RT, originally Russia Today, is a television network funded by the Russian government."
"RT [does] not list author information for articles published on the website."
"RT News presents news that is generally in line with the Russian Government’s narrative. They are highly biased in favor of Russia and occasionally run Pro-state conspiracy stories."
Why not? You suggest that the invasion was a "now or never" situation, but why would you, as a self-proclaimed pacifist, so easily dismiss "never" invading as an option.
Increasing democratization of Ukraine, potentially leading to eventual acceptance into the EU or even NATO are a threat to the Putin regime, but are they a threat to the sovereignty of the Russian people?
It's not at all clear how invading Ukraine actually has or was supposed to benefit the people of Russia while there are obvious motives for the Russian power brokers.
Also, Russia is an authoritarian autocracy, under Putin's control, so distinguishing between Russia and Putin directing the invasion seems a meaningless rhetorical distinction.
All you say is pretty reasonable.Couple of things, only:
I have not dismissed never. I just say that Russia dismissed it, for whatever the reason.
Depending of how you define sovereignty. Would there be a place for Russia in EU? Would they be let carry own foreign and domestics politics, or would be forced to change governments at will of the west, like Ukraine is and jump on expansionist wagon, serving as a proxy for attack on new target. Borders and elected government are not all there is to sovereignty. They already have that. Nobody should be telling them whom to elect, what life to live. Putin is their choice, they should be let alone with it.
Neutral, demilitarised Ukraine was an easy solution. West should have accepted it
At the end of all this, the world compares Putin to Hitler, hated by the world, doing harm to the image and people of his own country while Zelensky becomes one of the most beloved heroes in world history.
Good. Then you agree that the most humanitarian and pacifistic approach would have been for Russians to not invade in the first place. But, they instead decided to NOT be humanitarian or pacifistic and invade a sovereign country because "Nazis" or "NATO" or whatever other reason Putin decided.
The soldiers coming from Russia are RUSSIAN. Therefore, RUSSIANS have invaded Ukraine. Maybe RUSSIA should have decided on NEVER. They damn well could have let it go unanswered. Putin decided not to. He sent a bunch of RUSSIANS to invade the Ukraine.
If Russia is just going to appoint people as soldiers without giving them a choice, then any Russian is a potential soldier. Seems the only right choice is to target them all. There's a lot you don't know.
You speak mostly angry BS, from outright hatred, mixing causes with consequences.
Potential soldiers are not soldiers. People in combat zone, not wearing uniform, with card blanche to kill and with guns in hand, or within reach are not civilians.
For current world order it would be better if they did not attack. For peoples of Ukraine and Russia, in material sense, it would also be better. However, there is more to life than material wealth. Russians sre not uninformed They even visit LR forum. They could find for themselves how western public opinion was built against them in prior years and decades.
I am serious when I say, Russia decided that confronting imperialist powers of world domination is more worthy, than comfortable way of life. I do not say that Russian leadership and oligarchy don't have personal materialist motives, but those are only secondary.
So citizens in a bomb shelter under a theater in Mariupol were a legitimate target because they were in a combat zone? No. Of course not. If Russian soldiers don’t want to be offed by some Ukrainian citizen with a gun, then maybe they should march their a$$es back to Moscow and tell Tsar Putin that they don’t want to be associated with his murderous regime. Putin said he was liberating Ukraine from the terrible Nazis, why then would a Ukrainian citizen use it on the wonderful Russian liberators that came to save them from the evil Zelensky? Maybe because the Russians are committing war crimes against civilians, so civilians are taking up arms because they don’t want to be occupied.
Since Putin has banned any actual news in Russia, then I would say that most Russians are uninformed.
Russia believes that Ukraine is an imperialist power of world domination? They’re even more uninformed than I realized.
Trump Family: As soon as their father is elected, they reject/walk away from international business deals.
Biden Family: As soon as their father is elected, they sit on foreign boards with no experience, sell our country out to China, and solicits foreign contracts endlessly.