If they had six months to train (starting today), who would win a hilly 100-mile trail ultra: Haile or Scott Jurek?

No one has ever heard of me, but in the first 50 mile race I ever ran, I was well in front of Scott Jurek. (It was pretty hilly and on trails, down in Arizona). I am pretty sure that Haile Gebresellasie would have been a solid hour in front of me on that day. Given that he is insanely faster at every distance up to 26 miles, why wouldn't he also stomp us all flat at longer distances? He has WAAAYYY more miles of training in (miles, not minutes), he is mentally tougher, etc., etc.

chubb wrote:

Faster at a shorter distance doesn't always equate to longer distances or else Bolt would hold all records.

Doubtful Rub, highly doubtful. I wouldn't touch a distance over 400 meters if I had the raw speed that Bolt has.

Nerd Bull wrote:

Doubtful Rub, highly doubtful. I wouldn't touch a distance over 400 meters if I had the raw speed that Bolt has.

Apparently you misunderstood my point. Are you saying that with Bolt's raw speed he should have every record from 100 meters to 100 miles? Different energy systems & muscular strenghth requirements.

an example from the home front:

Giorgio Calcaterra PBs

5000m: 14'35”

10000m: 30’00”00 (2000)

Mezza (Half) Maratona: 1h05’00” (2000)

Marathon: 2h13’15” (2000)

100 km: 6h37’00” (2008)

As far as Jurek/Haile is concerned. I say lets do it and put money on it: a best of three ultras in six months (once every 2 months) 1 trail, 1 road, 1 mixed.

Best cumulative time wins.

Lets do it, do it, do it.

I recind my guess that Haile would beat Jurek. The real situation is that when Geb is crushing Jurek in a race Jurek will drop out and claim some affliction......or maybe it was an off day....these things don't always go well.......maybe I'm wrong but it seems he only finishes races if he is winning.........now time to go check the results because I could always be wrong

I am entering this discussion late but with a different perspective. I have a marathon PR of 2:27 and have run over 100 ultras with PRs of 50 kilometers - 3:07, 50 miles -5:35, 100 kilometers - 7:31 and 100 miles - 18:49.

The issue of whether Geb wins turns on a number of issues, with nutrition being only one of them. Does he run well on rocks? How good is his balance? Running WS is not normal running. If speed at the marathon was the only issue I would be in the top 5 at WS. However, in five tries at WS (including 2 DNF), I have finished further back at WS with its 450 starters than I finished in the NYC marathon. People that I beat by miles in a marathon beat me by hours at WS. WS is a different event and there just is no way to know if Geb would do well in it or not. There have been 2:15 marathoners at WS and they have not done well.

WS is different wrote:There have been 2:15 marathoners at WS and they have not done well.

name them?

anyone who runs over a marathon is a retard. they get no respect from me.

chubb wrote:

Apparently you misunderstood my point. Are you saying that with Bolt's raw speed he should have every record from 100 meters to 100 miles? Different energy systems & muscular strenghth requirements.

This is a poor analogy. Jurek is 30% slower than Geb in the marathon. A better analogy would be to compare Bolt (9.58) with a 12.4 100 guy, and who would win over 400? or 800?

Malmo had it right, this isn't comparing apples to apples, it's comparing a donkey to a thoroughbred.

This thread is like trying to convert pounds to miles.

Jurek didn't drop out of this one:

http://www.caballoblanco.com/spring2006results-three.html

2:38 marathoner wrote:

This is a poor analogy. Jurek is 30% slower than Geb in the marathon. A better analogy would be to compare Bolt (9.58) with a 12.4 100 guy, and who would win over 400? or 800?

Malmo had it right, this isn't comparing apples to apples, it's comparing a donkey to a thoroughbred.

Please don't misunderstand. I agree with you completely. However, just as a donkey/thoroughbred is not apples to apples, neither is a 100 mile race/marathon. The faster person does not always win at a race 4 times longer. Maybe a better analogy would be Kipketer can't be beaten at 3k by a 1:53 guy because he has a vastly superior time at 800. Given 6 months, I think Geb would crush this guy I have never heard of. Even though it is basically the same energy system, there are vast differences in a 100 mile race versus a marathon.

I think the better question would be: Given six months to train, who would win a hilly ultra: Haile or Matt Carpenter?

Training for an ultra is no different than you would for a marathon. Many ultra runners run 70-80 mpw.

malmo wrote:

Flagpole, it's ridiculous to compare a donkey with a racehorse. In the worst condition Gebrselassie has ever been in he'd destroy those ultra freaks.

I'm in 100% agreement with you. Of course I didn't start this thread and would never have done such a silly thing, but as you know, I debate the wrong (probably more than I should), and anyone supporting Jurek against Geb is beyond crazy.

jdbloom wrote:

Here's my view from firsthand experience running both marathons and ultras. I'm by no means elite, but I have a marathon PR of 2:39 (which, as people on this message board like to point out, is about the same as Jurek's marathon PR). I've never run a 100 mile trail race, but did recently compete in 50K and 50 mile trail races. In the latter (the PCT50), I finished fourth in 7:47.

Interesting. I've run ONE 50 mile race, and my time was...7:47. You're a bit faster at the marathon distance though as my super lame 2:55 shows.

WU TANG AINT NUTIN TO F WIT wrote:

This thread is like trying to convert pounds to miles.

Someone gets it!!!

"Ultras are a ego scam for 3rd tier division II ex college runners or non runners who didn't start running later in life as master runners....real runners could give a shit about competiting with a bunch of old guys over 40...for ninty nine percent it is about finishing not racing....Ultras is for ex retired white collar guys who need their egos stroked!"

That's pretty funny. I thought that's what Letsrun was.

McGurk wrote:

I recind my guess that Haile would beat Jurek. The real situation is that when Geb is crushing Jurek in a race Jurek will drop out and claim some affliction......or maybe it was an off day....these things don't always go well.......maybe I'm wrong but it seems he only finishes races if he is winning.........now time to go check the results because I could always be wrong

I take back this claim; I did some research and Jurek has indeed toughed out some long races where he was definitely not up front...he is definitely a fighter....so I'm an ass....but with that said, Geb still crushes him in a 100 mile race, even if it was when Jurek was in his prime three years ago.....especially given time to focus on it.....at least a 2 hour victory if he finishes (which is always the case, even for the best ultra runners)