I'm closing this whole thread to new posts. It's served its purpose and I don't know what else can be said on the matter.
I must state though that many of the posts in this thread, particularly the ones praising Mike Smith while ripping Dave Smith disgust me.
Those posters are basically saying, "If you recruit foreign athletes that are white, you are a high integrity person like Mike Smith, but if you recruit foreign athletes that are black, then you are shady and don't deserve respect."
Take your racism somewhere else.
The reality is Mike Smith trotted out a women's team yesterday with four transfers on it including three of who were from outside the US. He was doing everything he could to win that race just like Dave in the men's race.
First he ruined German Fernandez. Now he takes shortcuts to success by stacking his team with East African imports. No respect. I hope NAU beats them again.
100% this
No way those guys lose again. it makes a mockery of the system
It’s the beginning of a new era. With unlimited money lining the pockets of the big schools, expect the rest of the NCAA to follow the Dave Smith model. The Kenyan cross country championships will be the shopping ground for NCAA coaches. Expect multiple teams to score around 50 pts or less and for their top 5 to be saturated with African talent. It’s just a new era. If you don’t pack your roster with African talent you will become obsolete. Many schools have had 2 or 3 Africans at the most but not since UTEP in the 80s had we seen 5 of the top 7 be Africans. Dave Smith congrats on showing the NCAA the way of the future!
Lol, as you said, stacking a team with African recruits has been a thing since the '80s. It hasn't happened that often in recent years because no one cares about xc and thus few ADs are willing to back all the recruiting effort it takes.
It doesn’t happen all that often because most coaches have values and prefer to run a program with integrity. Dave Smith has made a mockery of the system. He lies at will (refer to the pre race panel interview) and has become a lazy and shady character. Prefers to poach a team full of African semi pro runners rather than develop American kids like he used to do. I can’t respect a coach with these values. Seems to care more about his ego than his runners. No wonder Nataly Cook escaped.
Unfortunately the damage from Dave’s win at all costs methods can have long lasting effects, and it might already be too late for Cook. Just look at German.
Seriously Clay ... We get that you don't like coach Dave but this is getting a bit ridiculous.
You are a 35 yo adult, not a young freshman anymore. If you feel like you have a score to settle, give him a call. In any case, XC is just a game, there is nothing at stake.
The reality is that nil and the transfer portal has changed college athletics for the worse. It’s now a minor league to pro sports. So we’re going to see more of this win at all costs attitude. It’s not about education but about money.
It’s the beginning of a new era. With unlimited money lining the pockets of the big schools, expect the rest of the NCAA to follow the Dave Smith model. The Kenyan cross country championships will be the shopping ground for NCAA coaches. Expect multiple teams to score around 50 pts or less and for their top 5 to be saturated with African talent. It’s just a new era. If you don’t pack your roster with African talent you will become obsolete. Many schools have had 2 or 3 Africans at the most but not since UTEP in the 80s had we seen 5 of the top 7 be Africans. Dave Smith congrats on showing the NCAA the way of the future!
Lol, as you said, stacking a team with African recruits has been a thing since the '80s. It hasn't happened that often in recent years because no one cares about xc and thus few ADs are willing to back all the recruiting effort it takes.
College athletics is big business. Especially in a Power 5 conference. Dave Smith is getting paid pretty well to win titles. The only thing most of us are going to remember is that Ok State won with a really impressive point total.
Seriously Clay ... We get that you don't like coach Dave but this is getting a bit ridiculous.
I don’t know who you think I am, but I promise you I have no affiliation to OSU. I’ve never even been to Oklahoma. Are you really so immersed in an OSU bubble that you find it difficult to understand why outside observers who love the sport would have a problem with what Dave Smith has done?
I’m far from the only person who disapproves of how OSU won. Look at pages 23-25 of the live discussion thread from yesterday’s event. Here are comments that were made, many from registered users:
“TEAM KENYA FTW!”
“Shades of UTEP”
“just a gross way of going about winning. a hollow victory”
“I try hard not to be a provincial homer, but I really can't celebrate an Oklahoma State title. Just doesn't sit right.”
“it's interesting to win in this way. you do what you can do within the rules, but i can't imagine it feels the same as doing it in a traditional way. Ive had the opportunity to coach some dominating all-star teams in track and field, and I can tell you 100% it does not feel as good as when I have a team made up of kids who came up in my own school district.”
“These schools also don’t have 21 year old freshman. Jeez. Even BYU looks better at this point.”
“I usually root for the dynasty to get broken and I have no issue with foreign athletes competing, but OSU just takes it to a level that makes it hardly seem like they are even a team or even need coaching. It’s like the turnkey apartment of running.”
Take those NAU kids and have them run as "Freshmen" when they are 22-25 and it will be a more fair comparison.
And as far as interest in the sport, nobody cares to watch a pack of East African runners take the top 20 spots. Look at what road racing has become.
There used to be big interest in who would win, but the 30+ years of generic East Africans winning, road races are now more about the pack, "the hobby joggers". Nobody cares, or knows who actually won.
Ok State is the winner of the 2023 NCAA championship.
I think much of the vitriol just comes from the fact that Dave Smith is just a world class ahole and people hate seeing aholes habe success. He's een that way ever since his days at MSU, belittling slower teammates and letting his massive ego constantly run his mouth.
The top American True freshman yesterday was Alex Young in 74th. There wasn’t another until outside the top 120. Tell me why a high school American should be getting more scholarship than someone like Kipngetich. It is actually insane for people to be talking about this. You aren’t okay with Messaoudi and Kipngetich but you’re okay with Ky Robinson. You’re okay with Adam Spencer. you’re okay with Ollie Hoare. You’re okay with Jackson Sharpe. Tell me what the hell the difference is here
The top American True freshman yesterday was Alex Young in 74th. There wasn’t another until outside the top 120. Tell me why a high school American should be getting more scholarship than someone like Kipngetich. It is actually insane for people to be talking about this. You aren’t okay with Messaoudi and Kipngetich but you’re okay with Ky Robinson. You’re okay with Adam Spencer. you’re okay with Ollie Hoare. You’re okay with Jackson Sharpe. Tell me what the hell the difference is here
People don't like Dave. Can you not understand this?
Unfortunately the damage from Dave’s win at all costs methods can have long lasting effects, and it might already be too late for Cook. Just look at German.
I'm not going to comment on Dave Smith's attitude, ability and ego (I have never met the man or seen him in person..am an avid follower of NCAA XC, Track and Field.. I've only ever just seen his YT videos after XC Nationals). However, can you really blame him for Cook? Cook was on the team for what - 6 months in reality? Had a great freshman X-country with a marvelous 7th (so, everyone was happy in those first 3-4 months..she seemed to be on a fantastic trajectory at that early point), but was quickly injured and ran a very poor indoors by March (apparently against advice of the coaching staff), and was totally absent outdoors. Appeared to have made her mind up to move away from OK state by the end of Indoors.
Can you really blame Dave Smith for her injury and subsequent inability to recover her form? As an injury-prone runner, she was well-known to use Cross-training like Valby to work around this. Was Dave Smith against her cross training so much that she had some sort of career-ending injury? She seemed all fit and well by the start of this X-country season at Colorado. Now Cook is at altitude full time (big advantage..), has had a lot of time injury-free, and is with a completely different coaching staff - yet, she's still not doing well.
I had two teammates in college who were Kenyan, and both were AA. It was an awesome experience that I'm thankful for.
They would always pal around with the Kenyans on other teams, so I had the chance to meet a lot of them, and they were always affable, relaxed and genuine. They taught me a lot about balancing focus and complete tranquility before races. They made me a better runner.
The NCAA is a MUCH more competitive and fun to watch as a result of all international talent.
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