Very interesting thread. This thread can be as simple as you want it to be or as complicated. I think that's what is good about it. You can follow page 1 and no more and probably get to within 90% of your potential. Or delve deep into the metrics and get to close to 100%.
Someone has already mentioned this but I'm also curious as to why this seems such a injury or risk free experience? Obviously with running you can break down at any point. But it's not something that's still really been covered much and seems to be yet another huge upside to this system. Is it the controlled nature of it? Simply no vo2 means a huge decrease in injury risk?
It is obvious that Sirpoc is very slow twitch. These runner types thrive on lots of threshold type work, and don't need much faster stuff. A more fast twitch runner needs the faster stuff, and will get easily fatigued on such a volume of threshold work. Of course the consistent weekly volume, regardless of make up, is very important.
So what would you recommend for fast twitch types - polarised easy/hard? I've never seen a consensus on that.
In the science of running, Steve magness recommends work right at threshold (lt2) for slow twitch, and shorter interval work right above it or longer sub threshold stuff for fast twitch. Along with very easy easy runs, and shorter/slower long runs than a slow twitch athlete would do.
Which sounds suspiciously a lot like this approach - which is sub threshold in terms of net stimulus, not threshod, even if the interval pace is at or above threshold pace. The interval aspect probably makes it even easier for a FT person to do than marathon effort tempos etc as well. Probably not by accident either, if it was mostly developed for 1500-5k runners. Which maybe you wouldn't consider pure fast twitch, but they definitely have some wheels, unlike sirpoc who does seem to be more classic ST and aerobically talented given his success in cycling.
It probably matters what the target event is too. No matter how good of a sprinter you are, if your goal is to run a fast marathon you better get some practice running moderately fast for a long time, cause that's exactly what the race will be.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
If paying attention to HR during the intervals and the rest period.
What should max HR be capped at, 90% of max?
What should HR drop to during rest interval, 70% of max?
I think there will be a lot of individual variation here. I use HR a lot and have used it for several years now, so I have a lot of data. I just recently started using lactate again after my coach used it in college. I stay between 85-87% of max HR. That will usually keep me between 2.3 to 3.0 mmol if I test at the end of a workout. I am also at altitude, which can complicate things.
HR can drop really low if the rest interval is a minute. My HR often drops below 60% by the end of the recovery, if I am walking or standing. 30s rest is a different story. HR stays much higher, maybe 75% by the end of the 30s.
Someone has already mentioned this but I'm also curious as to why this seems such a injury or risk free experience? Obviously with running you can break down at any point. But it's not something that's still really been covered much and seems to be yet another huge upside to this system. Is it the controlled nature of it? Simply no vo2 means a huge decrease in injury risk?
I'm guessing that is the case. The speed at which this training is run is simply not that taxing and hence reduced injury risk. In my personal experience, I seem to pick up almost no niggles compared to when I trained with VO2 max intervals and speed reps.
Yes this is using hr for tss calculations. I’m getting about 10 tss lower on the treadmill. Does this mean that outdoor workouts are more beneficial? Or does it not really matter as long as effort is same?
Yes this is using hr for tss calculations. I’m getting about 10 tss lower on the treadmill. Does this mean that outdoor workouts are more beneficial? Or does it not really matter as long as effort is same?
You likely needed more cooling.
If you read Skiba's paper on GOVSS, see pg. 14 about doing the same indoor runs at different temperatures.
The question is...does the extra work the body has to perform to cool the body add to the strain of the workout in a beneficial way?
In other words....the extra TSS would indicate you had a higher dose of "running", but you actually had a dose of "running" plus "extra work from cooling". Does the extra does of stress from additional cooling contribute to a better running performance? I wonder...
Yes this is using hr for tss calculations. I’m getting about 10 tss lower on the treadmill. Does this mean that outdoor workouts are more beneficial? Or does it not really matter as long as effort is same?
In my opinion, outdoor workouts will always be more beneficial if the conditions are decent.
If training in extreme weather, treadmill becomes your best bang for the buck.
If you can build up to one session indoor and the other one outdoor, you'll get the best out of both sides, so to speak.
In my opinion, outdoor workouts will always be more beneficial if the conditions are decent.
If training in extreme weather, treadmill becomes your best bang for the buck.
If you can build up to one session indoor and the other one outdoor, you'll get the best out of both sides, so to speak.
As you here jiggy, what would you call extreme weather? Hot and cold? I asked sirpoc on Strava but don't want keep bothering him and he mentioned yourself and lactate outside, in heat, de coupling? When do you think the tipping point or drop off is? When do you consider treadmill? What about cold? I follow sirpoc on Strava and it's crazy his most recent runs , I don't know why he does it outside? It looks windy, cold and wet. I'd that just still because he feels more efficient outside than in? I couldn't run in that. Ridiculous. Maybe you know that? I feel like there is a secret club outside of this thread with the floating brains talking .
In my opinion, outdoor workouts will always be more beneficial if the conditions are decent.
If training in extreme weather, treadmill becomes your best bang for the buck.
If you can build up to one session indoor and the other one outdoor, you'll get the best out of both sides, so to speak.
As you here jiggy, what would you call extreme weather? Hot and cold? I asked sirpoc on Strava but don't want keep bothering him and he mentioned yourself and lactate outside, in heat, de coupling? When do you think the tipping point or drop off is? When do you consider treadmill? What about cold? I follow sirpoc on Strava and it's crazy his most recent runs , I don't know why he does it outside? It looks windy, cold and wet. I'd that just still because he feels more efficient outside than in? I couldn't run in that. Ridiculous. Maybe you know that? I feel like there is a secret club outside of this thread with the floating brains talking .
Sorry for so many question.
I live in the Middle East so extreme for me is very humid heat, which is I have to endure during consecutive months in the summer. Think 32 degrees C at 75-80% relative humidity. That kind of weather saps and drains you, rendering such workouts brutal when done outdoors.
Some people cope better with humidity (or any given extreme element), but I myself struggle in high humidity. I find running in dry 40 degrees C to be easier than humid 32 degrees C and my metrics align with said feeling.
I also lived in Europe for a while and I had to endure running in what I considered "very cold" weather, but I did not do much quality running at the time so comparison is tough and unfair. However, I did take it to the treadmill here and there as well. Not as much as I do at home though.
You ask when the tipping point is, but I unfortunately don't have a definitive, universal answer, as we all have different thermoregulatory capabilities, i.e. we don't all cool at the same rate.
Oh and sirpoc has never tried running on a treadmill, ever.
OK, you "follow sirpoc on strava", but what is his account? Can you provide a link or a name at least?
You should join the Norwegian group from this thread, you will find all you need. Sirpoc account is private so I don't think it can be shared. But he is very helpful normally on the group and the user here fusio who created the group made him an admin, you can then add him that way. He is not here just for Strava followers. I think before this thread he had maybe 20.