I challenge anyone to logically defend this action: Feds Order High School To Allow Boys Who Dress As Gir

racket wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

No. He's a guy with a mental illness.

A = A

She identifies herself as a girl.

When does she cease to become a male and transition to female? Hormone replacement? Surgery?

Identifying as something is not a sufficient condition for being that thing.

WhitePony wrote:

I believe in marriage equality, equal pay for equal work, not being able to be fired for religious, gender or sexual orientation, but I also believe that children's changing areas should be divided based on their biological sex. If we want to have unisex bathrooms for adults that is fine but I do not think that is appropriate in a public school for children entrusted to our care.

Minors legally have a lot less rights than adults so having a separate solution for them might be legally acceptable.

Elyse- What would the Federal Government say to a transgender kid who wants to shower with their biological sex. A biological male who identifies as a woman for whatever reason might want to shower with other males. Would you say they should be prevented from this? Or people just pick which shower they use?

The point is with showers for 2 sexes, these kids being minors, the schools solution to this seems perfectly reasonable and is an attempt to accommodate the transgender student. Some have noted the law could easily be - bathrooms are determined on biological sex - and the kid would likely feel even more uncomfortable.

Someone pointed out the case of someone self identifying as African American. There was that white woman who did that this year and she was ridiculed. I don't think the situation is the same as to transgender people but Elyse talked about transgender people's brains being wired to not match their bodies. Couldn't the white woman who said she was black say the same thing? The difference with transgender people is their is a biological component and hormones can radically change ones identity, but at the end of the day this transgender girl trying to use the woman's locker room has a penis so there won't be a solution that fits perfectly.

Society is rightfully fine telling someone "you can't say you're black when you're not." but now we're supposed to be pretend you don't have a penis when you do? The point being the school is trying to work this out and come up with a reasonable solution. 20 years from now everyone may be more accepting and they shower wherever, but the school's solution is not bigoted.

I'd like to see tgirl's comments. She posts on here and has transitioned from male to female and has helped me understand some of these issues.

Gov't authorities need to carry out their legal responsibilities, which is why that county clerk was jailed, rightly. Having teenage physical males taking showers and changing with physical females makes no sense, however.

lambic wrote:

"By whose definition"-- I think this is the crux of the issue. I'm talking about gender, and using the American Psychiatric Association as a reference--

https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/sexuality-definitions.pdf

And yes, there are certainly cases where someone has decided to transition back to the gender they were assigned at birth. Still others don't identify with either gender.

I think based on the APA definition you're using, you're actually talking about Gender Identity and Gender Context, which deal with self perception, not Gender, which deals with social perceptions and norms surround Sex, which is a biological construct and not necessarily a psychological one.

Just as an aside, I don't think the transgender student has a "preference" for being female. We have preferences for things like chocolate over vanilla, or the Beatles over the Rolling Stones. In his/her case, there is something chemical/biological/hormonal that causes this gender issue.

That being said, I agree with you and don't think that he/she should shower with the girls. A separate shower makes sense. He/she is not a girl. He is an individual with a penis who identifies as a girl.

Elyse wrote:

There's a difference. I am a cisgender female. LOL at "layer of confusion"....anyone who every took Psych 101 or an intro to human sexuality would know the difference.

No Psych. department at a respectable research-based university in the country discusses gender dysmorphia in a 101 course. Intro to human sexuality is more of something you find in a humanities department, not something that crosses over to a bio department or other hard science.

Elyse wrote:

I have twelve year old clients attempting suicide because people like DiscoGary spead the gospel that these kids shouldn't have the same rights as other kids. It's sickening and disheartening, honestly.

You have 12 year olds attempting suicide because gender dysmorphia is comorbid with a boatload of other psychiatric disorders, and all the mis-wired neural circuitry is a ticking time bomb of the sort that would predispose ANYONE to suicide regardless of what society says. And suicide is a low enough base rate event that even something environmental that does increase risk significantly should not be seen as a death sentence; quite the opposite. Risk factors for things like suicide are going to be a statistical nightmare because of the comorbidities; good luck demonstrating that bigotry is what is driving these kids to self-harm. They may self report that it's the reason, but look at rates of suicidality in places where tolerance is high; they're no better.

Elyse wrote:

A transgender girl is a girl; she should be free to use the girl's bathroom. That's it.

No, that's not simply the end of it "because that's the way it is." A schizophrenic may perceive a hallucination that is not within their control to experience, that doesn't mean we cater our reality to their perception. We figure out why their perception doesn't mesh with reality, and we try to find ways to alter their brain so that their perception comes into closer focus with reality. A transgender boy identifying as a girl should not be using the girls' room, we should be searching for ways to make that child not feel like the sex that they aren't.

It's not Federal money. It's your money and my money they're using to buy votes. It's our tax dollars at work within an out of control, Socialist administration. It all ends, next November. Count on it!

themanontherun wrote:

No, that's not simply the end of it "because that's the way it is." A schizophrenic may perceive a hallucination that is not within their control to experience, that doesn't mean we cater our reality to their perception. We figure out why their perception doesn't mesh with reality, and we try to find ways to alter their brain so that their perception comes into closer focus with reality. A transgender boy identifying as a girl should not be using the girls' room, we should be searching for ways to make that child not feel like the sex that they aren't.

Actually, we should be doing neither.

DiscoGary wrote:

This is what I mean when I talk about leftist fascism. Autocratic control over the lives of everyone, usually using the sins of the fathers to punish the kids.

Do you concede, are do you want to continue with this rhetorical rout?

Correct. The left just keeps coming and coming. I remember when Rush Limbaugh first was on the air. He said, "They are coming for you SUVS. This was in the late 1990s or early 1990s. People thought he was crazy. Here we are 25 years later and he has been proven correct.

Great. Let's accept your premise that it's real. Caitlyn Jenner feels like a woman. What's also is real is the fact that she still has a penis.

Let's just relable the bathrooms. Penises over here. Vaginias over here. Then there is nothing for anyone to be upset about.

Why should we have to cater to Caitlyn's feelings? That's one person. What about the hundred other people in the shower with Caitlyn? If we are simply trying to maximize soc

Javelin.

serenicecreamdipity wrote:

Javelin.

Post of the year.

rojo wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

This is what I mean when I talk about leftist fascism. Autocratic control over the lives of everyone, usually using the sins of the fathers to punish the kids.

Do you concede, are do you want to continue with this rhetorical rout?

Correct. The left just keeps coming and coming. I remember when Rush Limbaugh first was on the air. He said, "They are coming for you SUVS. This was in the late 1990s or early 1990s. People thought he was crazy. Here we are 25 years later and he has been proven correct.

So much paranoia. Watch out for the liberal boogeyman! He's everywhere. Stay vigilant!

rojo wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

This is what I mean when I talk about leftist fascism. Autocratic control over the lives of everyone, usually using the sins of the fathers to punish the kids.

Do you concede, are do you want to continue with this rhetorical rout?

Correct. The left just keeps coming and coming. I remember when Rush Limbaugh first was on the air. He said, "They are coming for you SUVS. This was in the late 1990s or early 1990s. People thought he was crazy. Here we are 25 years later and he has been proven correct.

How are leftists so powerful? According to guys like you and Gary there are a lot more people on the right (the "silent majority") plus they have all the guns and are much tougher than those sissy liberals. And they've got God on their side. Just how are these crafty, kooky lefties taking over?

rojo wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

This is what I mean when I talk about leftist fascism. Autocratic control over the lives of everyone, usually using the sins of the fathers to punish the kids.

Do you concede, are do you want to continue with this rhetorical rout?

Correct. The left just keeps coming and coming. I remember when Rush Limbaugh first was on the air. He said, "They are coming for you SUVS. This was in the late 1990s or early 1990s. People thought he was crazy. Here we are 25 years later and he has been proven correct.

Wow. Can this be a real post by Rojo? Or is someone trolling him here?

Wow. Just wow.

Click bait.

I'm a big fan of your expertise and insight about running... but you should stick to running.

Your comment shows you really don't know much about the topic (as with many who are posting). Although I don't agree with everything Elyse said, I do think it would be very helpful if you did some basic google searches about this to get a better understanding, and most importantly, contribute something meaningful to the discussion.