Did Prefontaine ever win a race internationally?

actually, THIS should be the final word on this subject:

The thread starter asked questions about Pre, trying to belittle Pre's accomplishments in the process. But these are the answer we got back:

A) Pre DID win several international races against top competition. Mr "wannabe" acted like he never did.

B) Did Pre ever win against an Olympic Finals-caliber-type field??? No, he did not.

C) Did Pre beat lots of the THE VERY BEST runners of his era?? Yes he certainly did. As I already pointed out, in the Olympic Final 5k he beat THREE current or former WR holders:

*5 Emiel Puttemans BEL 13.30.8

*6 Harald Norpoth FRG 13.32.6    

 *12 Dave Bedford 13:43.22

Puttemans had THREE WR's HIMSELF by the end of Sept '72 including a 13:13 that stood for five years! Someone said that Pre had trouble with Puttemans....I guess not THAT day.

D) And lastly, as we have all pointed out, THIS was Dave Bedford's abysmal track championship record:

* 6th in the 1971 European 10,000m,

* 12th at 5000m and 6th at 10,000m in the 1972 Olympics,

* 11th at 5000m and 4th at 10,000m at the 1974 Commonwealth Games.

Good grief Craig, you can't be serious, can you?

As I have emphasized repeatedly, I admired Prefontaine, but he was certainly not my "god." However, I rather calmly took exception to the immature and antagonistic manner that Dave chose to to start this thread in the first place. In response, he arrogantly claimed that he was justified in acting like an "antagonistic jerk" because he was providing a "service to the running community" by creating this thread.

Dave is obviously an experienced, knowledgeable member of the running community. But in this instance, he created a thread that was childish, antagonistic, and manipulative, knowing well in advance that he was going to be starting arguments.

Can you honestly sit there and say "Dave...for whatever reason, they don't like you"? Sorry Craig, but reading IS fundamental! The topic creator's behavior is the very epitome of acting like a troll.

That one quote from earlier in the week is still pertinent...

That was a pretty good summary. I have only two quibbles. First would be with your category A. The only time Prefontaine won a race against top international competition was when Yifter miscounted the laps. Second would be your statement that I was trying to belittle Pre's accomplishments. That's false. I was belittling rabid fans of Pre who insist on the legend that Pre was equal to the best runners of his era.

I thought CraigMac's statement should have been the last word on this. But since you've distorted Pre's record and my intentions for starting the thread (which was to discuss Pre's international career as a way to question the legend), you've probably just given it new life. Congratulations.

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

I was belittling rabid fans of Pre...

The fact that you created this thread to start belittling people is the worst-kept secret on the LetsRun boards, Dave.

YOU are the one who deserves congratulations! That admission alone makes you a first-class troll.

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

You're right. I am a holier-than-thou-antagonistic jerk.

Thanks for at least giving me credit for being first class. Maybe it's because I didn't use terms like pussy, douche bag, and jacka$$ like some of Pre's rabid fans on here.

The uncomfortable fact remains for Pre's rabid fans that Pre never won an international race against the best runners of his era. He obviously did win international races, but not the kind equal to the legend. (There I said it again, so go ahead and attack me again so I can say it again later on this same thread.)

Dave, I notice that you keep conveniently ignoring my posts. The whole "logic and common sense" thing seems to scare you off.

You can claim to be first-class until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains that you acted like an immature troll when you created this thread. Did it ever even cross your mind to start a topic where you were honest, open, and mature while you stated your point of view?

Apparently not.

Hi cutie

You're right. I can see now that I failed to live up to the level of maturity displayed many of Pre's rabid fans. So I apologize for my immature approach to this subject. I can see that I didn't accord it the high seriousness that it deserved. And perhaps if I'd used terms like douche bag, pussy, and jacka$$, I would have been less irritating to some people.

Hey pussy, jackass, troll and for good measure slow ass piece of shit....you do realize you keep changing up your question right?

First - "Did Prefontaine ever win a race internationally?"

FROM YOU - "obviously did win international races"

Second - "victories on the track in major European meets."

FROM YOU - "obviously did win international races"

Third - "But he never won a major European race against the best."

Ok so a slight tweak of the question "the best"

Fourth - "when someone points out that Prefontaine never won a major international race"

FROM YOU - "obviously did win international races"

Fifth - "I said he never won a major international race, not that he never came ahead of someone "notable."

Another tweak from Eurpean to international and now you answer your own question that HE DID BEAT "notable" people

Sixth - "Apparently, he just couldn't even stand the thought of losing."

Couldn't stand that thought of losing but he offered to lead Waddle at an attempt to break the mile WR..

Seventh -"Pre never won an international race against the best runners of his era"

and our final variation...

That's great, now someone else is posting under "davebedfordwannabe." (See "Hi Cutie.") You guys really do give me standard to live up to on here in the future.

I'm no longer posting under this ID. Anyone posting under that ID is someone else. But I may start posting under another name myself. (Hmm. Where should I start?)

It just kills me that Pre never won a race equal to the legend, so I like to call people names if they point that out he never won that kind of race.

haha darn someone hmm (wannabe) used my name...

Dave, I said from the very beginning that you have made some good points, and I agree with the majority of what you've stated.

That being said, I'm sorry, you really don't have too much reason to get mad at the jerks who called you those idiotic names, because you started all of this in the first place!

For heaven's sake, use your head! You knew that the topic was antagonistic. You also knew that it was going to start some arguments. In the aftermath, you have the nerve to complain about the strength of their reactions?

Fact it, Dave...a pyromaniac sounds rather ridiculous when he starts whining about how high the flames have become!

You're right. I should have known that questioning Pre's legendary status would have caused an uproar. We should try to stick to topics we can all it agree on.

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

You're right. I should have known that questioning Pre's legendary status would have caused an uproar. We should try to stick to topics we can all it agree on.

When in doubt, you always resort to the childish replies, don't you?

I couldn't care less about Pre's legendary status, and I ALSO agreed with some of your points. In the end, youve acted like a little kid arguing on the playground.

You had a chance to actually make a interesting thread and a good topic. Instead, you went out of your way to piss people off, then acted mortified when they DID get pissed off?

To use your own words, CONGRATULATIONS!!!

davebedfordwannabe wrote:

I should have known that questioning Pre's legendary status would have caused an uproar.

No Dave, you should have known that authoring a topic thread where you come across as an antagonistic jerk in the very first post would cause an uproar. It's not a particularly difficult concept to grasp.

I don't condone the behavior of the people who have replied back to you using disparaging terms. However, maybe the strength of their reaction will cause you to think twice before you consider intentionally creating another topic that's designed to start arguments.

just for reference the name calling has become more of a funny joke...see how upset people get due to name calling, man oh man...

tell you the truth if 90% of us got together we'd all probably be friends lets be serious.

you know the old sayiing sticks and stone may break my....

Recently, the board has really lacked for good, stimulating running topics. It may be kind of sad that we have to go back to the 70s to get one going, but I'm glad dbwb got this going. It's actually brought back a lot of memories for me.