LRC note. We changed the title of the thread to make it more clear what exactly happened. The thread was initially entiteld, "Transgender sprinter wins Oregon girls' state championship 200". Moving forward, you must be a registered user to post.
Most trans athletes, like all athletes, are average. They are not on our radar. If that was the case 100% of the time, this would not even be an issue. Hopefully nobody has a problem with that. Let kids be kids... unless they are undermining the entire premise of girls sport (that girls need their own division because they can't compete against boys in sports).
BTW, I was recently at a meet where a female (trans-boy) ran in the boys race and was dead last. Nobody was "outraged" because it didn't hurt anyone and the kid was happy. Not much downside there, is there?
But this is getting more and more common even if we don't see all these kids winning the state meet.
Yes. This athlete is just the tip of an iceberg and the iceberg is the mediocre athletes who are not on the radar. Dems elected officials do not want a total ban because they think those mediocre athletes should be allowed to compete. But Rs are not willing to settle for anything short of a total ban. And they also want to ban trans boys in boys sports. Maybe no parent is outraged in Oregon. But Mack Beggs was booed for competing in boys wrestling.
you have to be a real loser to boo a 15year old kid
So why don't you enlighten us - if we aren't separating by biology what are we separating it by? Psychology?
I can't wait to hear this one - I know this thread can't either. Please, the floor is yours.
Gender
So by that you are saying gender isn't biological, but psychological in the sense that basically anyone is free to choose the gender they want to be depending on their state of mind.
So quite simply you think sports categories should be separated by psychological means vs biological and essentially you have arbitrarily redefined the conventions of competitive sports as per your interpretation - in the exact same way these transgender athletes and advocates believe they have the right to.
So my question remains, just what insane level of self-righteousness and arrogance do you have to think that your POV should redefine over a century of convention that has worked?
It’s intriguing that the usual suspects think it disgusting to boo a minor, as they are too young, but have no issue with that same minor being groomed into thinking they’re the wrong sex.
A bit of booing is outrageous. But chemically castrating youths is fabulous.
So by that you are saying gender isn't biological, but psychological in the sense that basically anyone is free to choose the gender they want to be depending on their state of mind.
So quite simply you think sports categories should be separated by psychological means vs biological and essentially you have arbitrarily redefined the conventions of competitive sports as per your interpretation - in the exact same way these transgender athletes and advocates believe they have the right to.
So my question remains, just what insane level of self-righteousness and arrogance do you have to think that your POV should redefine over a century of convention that has worked?
I wouldn't say that gender isn't biological. I'm not a biologist.
I think this over a century of convention has worked fine. I think this new understanding of it fits neatly into that convention. You call it "self-righteousness and arrogance." I call it common sense.
It’s intriguing that the usual suspects think it disgusting to boo a minor, as they are too young, but have no issue with that same minor being groomed into thinking they’re the wrong sex.
A bit of booing is outrageous. But chemically castrating youths is fabulous.
Bolded text is an ENORMOUS leap. It reflects nothing but your own prejudices.
So why don't you enlighten us - if we aren't separating by biology what are we separating it by? Psychology?
I can't wait to hear this one - I know this thread can't either. Please, the floor is yours.
Gender
Why would gender be the demarcation between divisions? In other words, why exactly do you think that being a girl makes a person so weak in sports that they need a whole separate division?
It’s intriguing that the usual suspects think it disgusting to boo a minor, as they are too young, but have no issue with that same minor being groomed into thinking they’re the wrong sex.
A bit of booing is outrageous. But chemically castrating youths is fabulous.
Bolded text is an ENORMOUS leap. It reflects nothing but your own prejudices.
Yes.
Isn’t it just.
No grooming here. Just the entire Western liberal establishment telling kids they can be any sex they want.
Bolded text is an ENORMOUS leap. It reflects nothing but your own prejudices.
Yes.
Isn’t it just.
No grooming here. Just the entire Western liberal establishment telling kids they can be any sex they want.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you appear to be borderline mentally ill.
It is absurd to think that "the entire Western liberal establishment (is) telling kids they can be any sex they want" unless you define "liberal" very narrowly.
Your obsession with this topic is likely a symptom of more deeply rooted problems.
Seriously, seek help. Life is better without rather bizarre obsessions.
Why would gender be the demarcation between divisions? In other words, why exactly do you think that being a girl makes a person so weak in sports that they need a whole separate division?
No grooming here. Just the entire Western liberal establishment telling kids they can be any sex they want.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you appear to be borderline mentally ill.
It is absurd to think that "the entire Western liberal establishment (is) telling kids they can be any sex they want" unless you define "liberal" very narrowly.
Your obsession with this topic is likely a symptom of more deeply rooted problems.
Seriously, seek help. Life is better without rather bizarre obsessions.
I’d wager pretending men are women is more symptomatic of mental illness.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you appear to be borderline mentally ill.
It is absurd to think that "the entire Western liberal establishment (is) telling kids they can be any sex they want" unless you define "liberal" very narrowly.
Your obsession with this topic is likely a symptom of more deeply rooted problems.
Seriously, seek help. Life is better without rather bizarre obsessions.
I’d wager pretending men are women is more symptomatic of mental illness.
I’ll discard your advice.
Get out of women’s sport you loser.
Again, a post suggesting your mental illness. Note the rather bizarre anger - this occurs with well over 90% of the mentally ill.
Sport competition is a biological competition. Only 2 rules for inclusion are needed.
1. An athlete must compete in one of 2 categories (biological men or biological women) based on their biological sex at birth.
2. In the extremely rare case of a hermaphrodites (people born with both male and female sex organs) who wants to compete a case by case ruling will be made by whatever governing body oversees the sport/competition based on fairness to ALL competitors.
This is the only way to uphold the fairness of sport. All are allowed to compete but only in the category of their birth biological sex.
The reason I stress category of biological birth, is because some argue that if a biological male gets his testosterone level down to levels of biological girls they should be able to compete in that category. But once a male has gone through male puberty, they will have some natural strength advantages over females, regardless what they get their later testosterone level down to.
It saddens me that a biological male would want to compete against biological women knowing their male biology gives them an unfair advantage. They can identify however they wish and have any personality traits they wish but fairness in sport is centered around biology and the above rules ensure that sports competition stay fair.
The reason I stress category of biological birth, is because some argue that if a biological male gets his testosterone level down to levels of biological girls they should be able to compete in that category. But once a male has gone through male puberty, they will have some natural strength advantages over females, regardless what they get their later testosterone level down to.
You are ignoring the existence of transgender girls / women who did not go through male puberty.
Why would gender be the demarcation between divisions? In other words, why exactly do you think that being a girl makes a person so weak in sports that they need a whole separate division?
Look, I’m not the “what should the demarcation be?” guy. I’m the “pointing out why we don’t need to change anything guy.”
You seem to be the one who feels the need to tear everything down. “We should just have one category!” “We should have separate categories for everything!”
We have two categories. Letting trans athletes compete with their gender works with the current system. I can’t take your whole sky-is-falling mindset seriously.
The reason I stress category of biological birth, is because some argue that if a biological male gets his testosterone level down to levels of biological girls they should be able to compete in that category. But once a male has gone through male puberty, they will have some natural strength advantages over females, regardless what they get their later testosterone level down to.
You are ignoring the existence of transgender girls / women who did not go through male puberty.
You can make an argument that those cases (trans girls not having gone through male puberty) should be looked at on a case by case basis as well. From what I have observed and read the athlete at question in Oregon has gone through/is going through male puberty and the pictures of that athlete would seem to lend to that conclusion as well. If that is the case the State of Oregon High School Athletic Association has knowingly allowed someone to compete with a known unfair advantage which I suppose why they were met with boos at the meet. State High School Athletic Associations will need to decide what they value most: fairness in competition for all athletes or the feelings/preferences of some athletes.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Why would gender be the demarcation between divisions? In other words, why exactly do you think that being a girl makes a person so weak in sports that they need a whole separate division?
Look, I’m not the “what should the demarcation be?” guy. I’m the “pointing out why we don’t need to change anything guy.”
You seem to be the one who feels the need to tear everything down. “We should just have one category!” “We should have separate categories for everything!”
We have two categories. Letting trans athletes compete with their gender works with the current system. I can’t take your whole sky-is-falling mindset seriously.
In other words, you are unable to answer the question
You are ignoring the existence of transgender girls / women who did not go through male puberty.
You can make an argument that those cases (trans girls not having gone through male puberty) should be looked at on a case by case basis as well. From what I have observed and read the athlete at question in Oregon has gone through/is going through male puberty and the pictures of that athlete would seem to lend to that conclusion as well. If that is the case the State of Oregon High School Athletic Association has knowingly allowed someone to compete with a known unfair advantage which I suppose why they were met with boos at the meet. State High School Athletic Associations will need to decide what they value most: fairness in competition for all athletes or the feelings/preferences of some athletes.
Then you basically get to the same rule already established by World Athletics.
Why would gender be the demarcation between divisions? In other words, why exactly do you think that being a girl makes a person so weak in sports that they need a whole separate division?
Look, I’m not the “what should the demarcation be?” guy. I’m the “pointing out why we don’t need to change anything guy.”
You seem to be the one who feels the need to tear everything down. “We should just have one category!” “We should have separate categories for everything!”
We have two categories. Letting trans athletes compete with their gender works with the current system. I can’t take your whole sky-is-falling mindset seriously.
this is an absurd answer given we're talking about an episode where the current system has failed:
a boy has competed against girls and won because as a man he has physical advantages over women
and a large crowd has booed the boy.
Lenny...given those problems...how is the 'current system' working?