Jakob has to win the 5k in Budapest before this discussion is even had. We only have one global championship 5k to reference (Excluding Doha, too young and didn't medal)
Could 2008 Bekele beat 2023 Jakob in a championship 5k?
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But the thesis was "Bekele couldn't hang with Jakob" and his times/races were overrated. We don't need to wait until after Budapest to test that theory.
Bekele's legacy is established and nothing that Jakob does will change that unless he runs like 13:20 and 26:00. If he does that, fine. Bekele can't hang. But as long as everyone is running 12:3x and 26:1x, Bekele is literally in the mix time-wise, especially since he didn't have the pace-lights or the super-shoes.
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westsouthrunner wrote:
Alarmingly obtuse should be your username. By your own metrics Jakob is irrelevant he hasn't run a marathon doesn't hold the world record for the mile and would never be good at the 100m distance.
First it was that no one relevant ran cross country back then. Now it's only three races matter lol. Why do you even follow the sport?
I watch Distance races because I do love the sport. But, we have to be realistic too. Only a handful events make headlines and we all know it. People know Bannister because of the 4:00 Mile, Usain Bolt for the 100m, and even that fraud Kipchoge for the Marathon.
Nobody outside of Letsrun knows the first Sub-13 5k runner or Sub-27 10k or even the first Sub-1 HM.
Stop pretending like all distances hold the same weight in terms of global importance.
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Tron wrote:
Didn't Lagat at age 41, 6 years after this race win the US Olympic trials with a sub 53 last lap? I think if he wasn't tripped in 2012 he had a chance to beat Farah... He definitely still had the speed in 2009
In a weak era of runners, yes. Today's era, Lagat wouldn't even make the US team in the 1500 much less outkick Jakob. Even Grant could beat Lagat today.
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Crascrenbon wrote:
You forgot to address the issue that was actually raised.
There was none. You made a false narrative and I called you out on it. Now go back to your textbook runner ways. You disgrace.
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surgeical wrote:
Because Ingebrigtsen's girlfriend is well renowned around the world? LOL your obvious bias is so laughable, it makes Coevett seem reasonable. Hard to see facts clearly with Jakob's nuts all over your face?
We ain't talking about their gfs. I'm talking about strictly about the Ethiopian fake superstar and Norway's greatest runner in history.
Hard for you to sleep with Bekele's loads down your system huh
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Impala31 wrote:
-Lagat was world champion in both the 1500 and 5000 in 2007 (bekele not doubling that year) and ran his 5k PR two years later than this race, in 2011 at 37yo.
-Kipchoge WR at 39? Or just Lagat as shown above
-Kipchoge, even though he is not remembered as a kicker, had a great kick.
-Is this a competition for the dumbiest poster on Let's Run?
- Great, but Lagat wasn't outkicking Jakob
- Kipchoge has a weak world record and without his supershoes he wouldn't have it. That's why he couldn't even win Boston. What a man.
-No, It's salty kids sucking up to the East Africans and blinding themselves.
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Ruxton Towers XC wrote:
We are just claiming that 12:37 (KB) runners and 26:22 runners (KB) and 3:28 runners (Mo Farah) would still be able to run today with the current crop of athletes who have, in many cases, slower PRs.
Since many of the current PRs are slower, the facts are on our side. Cheptegei is the exception, but we have seen how he can be inconsistent.
The topic is Bekele v Jakob. Jakob is winning. You guys just can't get over the fact that Bekele is done for and will remain irrelevant from now on.
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On the podcast, Rojo said he thinks peak Bekele wins over Jakob. Pretty sure that strengthens my argument.
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tryingtobefast wrote:
recency bias
Jakob manhandled the guy who took Bekele's record. There's an argument to be made and it's more than just recency bias.
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Also I watched this yesterday and now I'm more convinced Jakob has the edge over Bekele, but I think the margin is a lot smaller than I did a few days ago. Bekele broke the WR that year, and El G's best 1500m time was a 3:27.6 that he lost (Lagat's 3:27.4 AR* lol). Jakob just ran half a second faster with no competition, and he's better at the 5k. I've changed my mind from Jakob winning 75% of the time to like 60% of the time mostly because peak Bekele was probably 2008 Bekele, and 2004 Bekele was still really close.
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code5800 wrote:
westsouthrunner wrote:
Alarmingly obtuse should be your username. By your own metrics Jakob is irrelevant he hasn't run a marathon doesn't hold the world record for the mile and would never be good at the 100m distance.
First it was that no one relevant ran cross country back then. Now it's only three races matter lol. Why do you even follow the sport?
I watch Distance races because I do love the sport. But, we have to be realistic too. Only a handful events make headlines and we all know it. People know Bannister because of the 4:00 Mile, Usain Bolt for the 100m, and even that fraud Kipchoge for the Marathon.
Nobody outside of Letsrun knows the first Sub-13 5k runner or Sub-27 10k or even the first Sub-1 HM.
Stop pretending like all distances hold the same weight in terms of global importance.
Nobody outside of Letrsun knows the first sub 3:30 1500m runner.
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Peach Pit wrote:
Also I watched this yesterday and now I'm more convinced Jakob has the edge over Bekele, but I think the margin is a lot smaller than I did a few days ago. Bekele broke the WR that year, and El G's best 1500m time was a 3:27.6 that he lost (Lagat's 3:27.4 AR* lol). Jakob just ran half a second faster with no competition, and he's better at the 5k. I've changed my mind from Jakob winning 75% of the time to like 60% of the time mostly because peak Bekele was probably 2008 Bekele, and 2004 Bekele was still really close.
That's like rewatching the 2022 world championship 1500m final to convince yourself that prime Makhloufi could beat prime Jakob in a championship 1500m.
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themanontherun wrote:
tryingtobefast wrote:
recency bias
Jakob manhandled the guy who took Bekele's record. There's an argument to be made and it's more than just recency bias.
What do you think the answer would be if we could ask Joshua C. and Jakob if they think Joshua is superior to Bekele?
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Peach Pit wrote:
Also I watched this yesterday and now I'm more convinced Jakob has the edge over Bekele, but I think the margin is a lot smaller than I did a few days ago. Bekele broke the WR that year, and El G's best 1500m time was a 3:27.6 that he lost (Lagat's 3:27.4 AR* lol). Jakob just ran half a second faster with no competition, and he's better at the 5k. I've changed my mind from Jakob winning 75% of the time to like 60% of the time mostly because peak Bekele was probably 2008 Bekele, and 2004 Bekele was still really close.
2004 wasn't El Gerrouj career peak for time trials but it was his absolute peak for championship races. And even more so for the 5000..
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westsouthrunner wrote:
themanontherun wrote:
Jakob manhandled the guy who took Bekele's record. There's an argument to be made and it's more than just recency bias.
What do you think the answer would be if we could ask Joshua C. and Jakob if they think Joshua is superior to Bekele?
Plus Grant Fisher (among 7 other runners) manhandled "the guy who took Bekele's record". So what.
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surgeical wrote:
Peach Pit wrote:
awe thank you <3
you old heads are just resistant to change. it was all "Komen's 7:20 is the best WR on the books" until Jakob ran that 7:54. You guys just don't wanna admit that the runner you've idolized for the past 20 years just wouldn't be able to hang today. Tbf I think Bekele beats anyone anywhere except Jakob in a championship 5k. Jakob now is just too close to Bekele's fitness for Bekele to drop him solo, and you're smoking crack if you think Bekele is winning in a kick.
But! If Jakob loses the 5k at Worlds bump this and I'll repent for my sins.
I was wondering when this topic would come again with that Jakob vs Bekele thread after Eugene last year. I think it's a bit premature to be discussing this, although we can revisit it after Budapest this year. Regardless, I'm not sure why you would rate Farah's kicking ability to be better than Bekele's when Kenenisa has shown himself capable of routinely producing 53 last laps just like Farah, except off of a pace and final time 20-30s faster in the 5000m. Just beccause he can be outkicked by the likes of El G doesn't mean his ability to shift gears should be underestimated.
I guess this year's race does offer one more data point, but it sadly didn't give us much of any conclusive answers that we didn't know about or couldn't have guessed already before...
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7:54 and 3:27 shape probably not. Yesterday, yes.
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Mocazilla wrote:
7:54 and 3:27 shape probably not. Yesterday, yes.
FWIW, Mo Farah would’ve won yesterday easily.
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Jakob would smoke bekele
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