Elite HS 800m Training Plan

CoachB wrote:

Lighthaulin wrote:

I’m “the athlete in question” and don’t know if y’all will see this but just wanted to thank everyone who has been supporting this blog and giving encouragement, it’s meant a lot to me to see all your input this season, Nike nationals was disappointing but I’m so satisfied with the season and can’t wait for the next steps in my career. Thanks again for all the support!!

Hi Joe

Last update on this thread.

NON was disappointing. If I had to go back and do a few things differently, I'd have started with not going to Iceland. (This was not a possibility, my wife is Icelandic and we booked the trip to see relatives back in 2020, but that was canceled. This was the first chance we had to go since then and I want to stay married). I feel like if I was around the last 2 weeks, I'd have been able to help modulate the workouts to how things were progressing. As it stood instead, Joe was very good at doing the sessions that I emailed. He might have been a little too good....going a bit deep in the well to hit times that were kind of ideal.

That being said, the 3 week plan between state and NON might have simply been too aggressive. I thought for sure Joe would smash his PR at NON, but it didn't happen.

Monday 6/12 - 2 mile WU + drills + 3 x 50 + 3 x 1k with full recovery (6 min) 3:12, 3:08, 3:00

Tue: 3 mile warm up, drills, 3 x 50 acceleration + 2 x 150 accelerating every 50

Wed: 2 mile WU + drills + 4 x 300 with 2:30 rest (45, 46,46,46) + 4 x 200 with 2:30 rest (26.5, 27.5, 26.5, 25.5)

Thu: Travel day, 10 minute shake out on arrival

Fri: 3 miles easy on Pre's trail + 4 x 30 second stride outs.

Sat: NON 800 1:54.69

In hind sight, there are a few things I likely would have done differently. I titled the thread "elite 800m training" because I truly believed Joe was going to be top 10 in the US by this point in the season. As it turns out, he PR'ed by 2.2 seconds in the 400 but only 0.5 seconds in the 800. In the end, he DID end up in the top 10 in the US on the list of 400/800 combo guys. Maybe I should go back and change the title of the thread ;)

If I had the season do do over again, almost everything would be the same, but I would have liked to have him race less and be able to do some more VO2 max type sessions. My original plan had him running more VO2 max type sessions as fartlek runs, but I think I got a little over cautious and ended up emphasizing the less stressful CV intevals and Tempo intervals a lot more.

To be sure, Joe was probably the most aerobically strong 400/800 guy in the country, but just being aerobically strong isn't enough.

CoachB wrote:

Yeah, thanks, I just had a text conversation with him about an hour ago. He's really pleased with the result and feels like he made some tactical mistakes that cost him a faster time. He was surprised by how hard it is to move up the field on an indoor track and thinks he should have gone out harder

We've been talking a lot about his training.

While in high school, he did lots of low end aerobic, threshold development type stuff and lots of high end sprint type stuff and we tried to let his races take care of the VO2 max paces and lactate tolerance parts of fitness. At BYU, he's doing VO2 max type fartlek stuff (about 5k pace, or slightly faster) on a weekly basis. He's doing hill repeats once a week, which wasn't really an option in high school, but he really likes them.

CoachB wrote:

His mileage is about what it was in HS or maybe a little more (35ish)

I don't want to give away the secret sauce without permission, but they're doing VO2 max stuff via fartlek running. When he was home for thanksgiving, I rode along on the bike while he did 5 on, 5 off, 4,3,2,1. Paces were nothing crazy, probably pretty close to what his 5k pr pace is.

They do hill repeats weekly. They've got access to a few more hills in Utah than we do in the central valley ;). He actually did do a fair number of hill sessions in high school, but the workout wasn't really hill repeats per se. I've been thinking about posting a video of our hill workout we do during cross.

It seems like leading into the season opener, they were doing a fairly large volume of R pace type stuff (or slightly faster). When he was home, he did 20 x 200 @ 29 ish.

CoachB wrote:

Just spoke to him in the phone. He did 10 x 1 min on 1 min off today, averaging 5:07 pace for the "on" and 7:01 pace for the "off". Averaged 5:55 pace for the whole workout. He probably would have struggled with that session last year. So, I'm encouraged.

Also, this might be a bit of a pipe dream, but I tell our sprinters that they should be able to hold their top speed for 30m.....so, I'd be really excited to see a 30m fly in sub 3 seconds. He ran a session of 30m flies about 10 days ago and averaged 3.18, so it might be a stretch. Maybe if we get a really good tailwind one day.....;)

Also, arrogantly, he and I both want him to get the school record at every distance from 200m-1600m, including the 300IH. Our head coach holds the hurdle record, so there's some smack talk around that one already. The 200m record is only 22.77, so that's possible too. The 1600 record is 4:21.5, set by a meth head in 1985, so I'd really like to see that one go down. He already has the 400 and 800. Getting all of those records was not my idea, but I support it, as long as it doesn't detract from the overall goal.

CA Fan.

He beat all the CCS guys last year.

old 800 guy 2 wrote:

CoachB wrote:

His mileage is about what it was in HS or maybe a little more (35ish)

I don't want to give away the secret sauce without permission, but they're doing VO2 max stuff via fartlek running. When he was home for thanksgiving, I rode along on the bike while he did 5 on, 5 off, 4,3,2,1. Paces were nothing crazy, probably pretty close to what his 5k pr pace is.

They do hill repeats weekly. They've got access to a few more hills in Utah than we do in the central valley ;). He actually did do a fair number of hill sessions in high school, but the workout wasn't really hill repeats per se. I've been thinking about posting a video of our hill workout we do during cross.

It seems like leading into the season opener, they were doing a fairly large volume of R pace type stuff (or slightly faster). When he was home, he did 20 x 200 @ 29 ish.

Coach B, can I bug you for some feedback on my training? I'm training myself for the 800. I'm old and washed up for an 800 guy but think I might be able to pull something off one last time. I've always trained more like a traditional distance runner but I'm giving the more speed-oriented approach a try and I've been heavily inspired by this thread and think you've got the right ideas.

I'm all around pretty athletic and strong, naturally kind of fast, but not blazing fast—I think/hope I could run 48 high on a good day this spring. I'm definitely aerobically stronger than your guy. Lifetime PRs are 51 flat (very rarely run open 4, split a lot of 49s back in the day), 1:53 low, 2:26 low for a 1k, and 4:16 on the roads, and a 15:57 the one time I ran a 5k on the track (hated it). I actually did some proper speed development last summer and jumped in a dinky 100m and ran sub 12 on a whim, which was a huge confidence booster. I would have never run sub 12 from a standing start when I was in 49 relay split shape.

I'm looking to run some fast times this spring. Here's two weeks of my winter training:

Week 1

Mon: 1.8 mile jog, drills, 4x50m hill, 1.8 mile jog + weights

Tue: 12 min jog, 4x5 min on (~5:40 pace), 1 min off (~8:00 pace), 1 mile jog

Wed: Easy 45 min run (~7:30) + weights

Thur: AM: 1.5 jog, drills, 3x50m accel, 1.5 jog PM: 3 mile shakeout

Fri: 10 min jog, 3x3 ~200m hill @ ~1000m effort w/ jog down rest, walk down between sets + 2x~200m hill @ 400m effort w/ full recovery, 1 mile jog

Sat: Weights + 30 min easy (~8:00)

Sun: 70 min easy (~7:40)

Week 2

Mon: 2 mile jog, drills, 3x50m hill, 2x120m hill, 1.5 jog + yoga

Tue: Treadmill: 1 mile up, 5x5 min @ 5:40 w/ 1 min standing rest, last rep working down to 5:20, 1/4 mile jog

Wed: 5 miles easy (~7:30), 3x150m stride + weights

Thur: AM: AM: 1.5 jog, drills, 3x50m accel, 1.5 jog PM: 3 mile shakeout

Fri: 10 min jog, drills, 5 min on, 5 min off, 4, 3, 2, 1 (thanks for this one), 10 min jog + weights

Sat: 7 miles easy (~7:30), 3x150m stride + weights

Sun: 10 min jog, drills, 3x(2x~200m hill, 2x~400m). Jog 60s between reps, a few minutes between sets.

Lots of distances are approximate as I'm running from like "This sign to that tree."

I'm around 40mpw now. Want to get to 45 and maybe up to 50 for a week or two. The plan is continue this style of training until ~February before I start to introduce more specific sessions. I'm also in a cold, snowy place, so getting on a track in the winter isn't always a given.

Thanks in advance!

old 800 guy 2 wrote:

Coach B, can I bug you for some feedback on my training? I'm training myself for the 800. I'm old and washed up for an 800 guy but think I might be able to pull something off one last time. I've always trained more like a traditional distance runner but I'm giving the more speed-oriented approach a try and I've been heavily inspired by this thread and think you've got the right ideas.

I'm all around pretty athletic and strong, naturally kind of fast, but not blazing fast—I think/hope I could run 48 high on a good day this spring. I'm definitely aerobically stronger than your guy. Lifetime PRs are 51 flat (very rarely run open 4, split a lot of 49s back in the day), 1:53 low, 2:26 low for a 1k, and 4:16 on the roads, and a 15:57 the one time I ran a 5k on the track (hated it). I actually did some proper speed development last summer and jumped in a dinky 100m and ran sub 12 on a whim, which was a huge confidence booster. I would have never run sub 12 from a standing start when I was in 49 relay split shape.

I'm looking to run some fast times this spring. Here's two weeks of my winter training:

Week 1

Mon: 1.8 mile jog, drills, 4x50m hill, 1.8 mile jog + weights

Tue: 12 min jog, 4x5 min on (~5:40 pace), 1 min off (~8:00 pace), 1 mile jog

Wed: Easy 45 min run (~7:30) + weights

Thur: AM: 1.5 jog, drills, 3x50m accel, 1.5 jog PM: 3 mile shakeout

Fri: 10 min jog, 3x3 ~200m hill @ ~1000m effort w/ jog down rest, walk down between sets + 2x~200m hill @ 400m effort w/ full recovery, 1 mile jog

Sat: Weights + 30 min easy (~8:00)

Sun: 70 min easy (~7:40)

Week 2

Mon: 2 mile jog, drills, 3x50m hill, 2x120m hill, 1.5 jog + yoga

Tue: Treadmill: 1 mile up, 5x5 min @ 5:40 w/ 1 min standing rest, last rep working down to 5:20, 1/4 mile jog

Wed: 5 miles easy (~7:30), 3x150m stride + weights

Thur: AM: AM: 1.5 jog, drills, 3x50m accel, 1.5 jog PM: 3 mile shakeout

Fri: 10 min jog, drills, 5 min on, 5 min off, 4, 3, 2, 1 (thanks for this one), 10 min jog + weights

Sat: 7 miles easy (~7:30), 3x150m stride + weights

Sun: 10 min jog, drills, 3x(2x~200m hill, 2x~400m). Jog 60s between reps, a few minutes between sets.

Lots of distances are approximate as I'm running from like "This sign to that tree."

I'm around 40mpw now. Want to get to 45 and maybe up to 50 for a week or two. The plan is continue this style of training until ~February before I start to introduce more specific sessions. I'm also in a cold, snowy place, so getting on a track in the winter isn't always a given.

Thanks in advance!

CoachB wrote:

old 800 guy 2 wrote:

I'm all around pretty athletic and strong, naturally kind of fast, but not blazing fast—I think/hope I could run 48 high on a good day this spring. I'm definitely aerobically stronger than your guy. Lifetime PRs are 51 flat (very rarely run open 4, split a lot of 49s back in the day), 1:53 low, 2:26 low for a 1k, and 4:16 on the roads, and a 15:57 the one time I ran a 5k on the track (hated it). I actually did some proper speed development last summer and jumped in a dinky 100m and ran sub 12 on a whim, which was a huge confidence booster. I would have never run sub 12 from a standing start when I was in 49 relay split shape.

I'm looking to run some fast times this spring. Here's two weeks of my winter training:

Week 1

Mon: 1.8 mile jog, drills, 4x50m hill, 1.8 mile jog + weights

Tue: 12 min jog, 4x5 min on (~5:40 pace), 1 min off (~8:00 pace), 1 mile jog

Wed: Easy 45 min run (~7:30) + weights

Thur: AM: 1.5 jog, drills, 3x50m accel, 1.5 jog PM: 3 mile shakeout

Fri: 10 min jog, 3x3 ~200m hill @ ~1000m effort w/ jog down rest, walk down between sets + 2x~200m hill @ 400m effort w/ full recovery, 1 mile jog

Sat: Weights + 30 min easy (~8:00)

Sun: 70 min easy (~7:40)

Week 2

Mon: 2 mile jog, drills, 3x50m hill, 2x120m hill, 1.5 jog + yoga

Tue: Treadmill: 1 mile up, 5x5 min @ 5:40 w/ 1 min standing rest, last rep working down to 5:20, 1/4 mile jog

Wed: 5 miles easy (~7:30), 3x150m stride + weights

Thur: AM: AM: 1.5 jog, drills, 3x50m accel, 1.5 jog PM: 3 mile shakeout

Fri: 10 min jog, drills, 5 min on, 5 min off, 4, 3, 2, 1 (thanks for this one), 10 min jog + weights

Sat: 7 miles easy (~7:30), 3x150m stride + weights

Sun: 10 min jog, drills, 3x(2x~200m hill, 2x~400m). Jog 60s between reps, a few minutes between sets.

Lots of distances are approximate as I'm running from like "This sign to that tree."

I'm around 40mpw now. Want to get to 45 and maybe up to 50 for a week or two. The plan is continue this style of training until ~February before I start to introduce more specific sessions. I'm also in a cold, snowy place, so getting on a track in the winter isn't always a given.

Thanks in advance!

I don't think you need as many speed sessions. I think you can do a good job addressing top speed with extensive drills and lower intensity activities. We only do 1 true speed session per week, and during the preparation period, we never do speed endurance.

Big Mig is right. An easy VO2 session once per week would be beneficial. It looks like you've got that in there with the 5-4-3-2-1. Doing those around 5k effort is pretty beneficial. You can start with intervals of 1-3 minutes, though. To run a fast 800, you need to get really good at going hard for 2 minutes. Joe really thrived off of the 2 on 2 off fartlek stuff he was doing during his soccer season. I'm still kicking myself for not continuing that during the actual track season.

CoachB wrote:

His mileage is about what it was in HS or maybe a little more (35ish)

I don't want to give away the secret sauce without permission, but they're doing VO2 max stuff via fartlek running. When he was home for thanksgiving, I rode along on the bike while he did 5 on, 5 off, 4,3,2,1. Paces were nothing crazy, probably pretty close to what his 5k pr pace is.

They do hill repeats weekly. They've got access to a few more hills in Utah than we do in the central valley ;). He actually did do a fair number of hill sessions in high school, but the workout wasn't really hill repeats per se. I've been thinking about posting a video of our hill workout we do during cross.

It seems like leading into the season opener, they were doing a fairly large volume of R pace type stuff (or slightly faster). When he was home, he did 20 x 200 @ 29 ish.