Landis tested positive for synthetic roids, denied and denied, accused the lab of conflict of interested, went to CAS and beyond and lost. Sound familiar?
Four years later he started implicating his various teammates, something BTC wants to avoid obviously. Then Armstrong said, it's his word against ours and so on. So hilarious in hindsight.
Exactly. Same situation, just much lower profile because Lance was such a star. Floyd has basically said that he felt totally alienated, especially when he wasn’t welcomed back with open arms after serving his ban. So he dishes on teammates years after the fact out of mostly spite. In my opinion that’s what they’re trying to avoid here.
Not saying BTC is on the same level as Postal was in terms of organized doping. I genuinely do not think it is. But I would also be surprised if everyone was squeaky clean. And if there are just athletes doing their own thing on the side without Jerry’s explicit knowledge, then it’s possible that leadership doesn’t even know what Shelby knows. She could even have dirt on the old school NOP through her relationship with Centro.
So they need to make sure she feels like she still has a place in that community. Sticking by her in the press makes it a whole lot easier for mainstream press to write these puff pieces. That, in turn, makes it a whole lot easier to welcome her back when her ban is served. Sure, it’s going to piss us off and some of the other elite athletes, but that’s easier to dismiss that than it is to dismiss Shelby if she gets pissed off and goes to the press with a story about organized doping in Nike’s training groups.
Inverse of the same problem actually. NOP’s coach was doing shady and the grey area/Dr. Brown stuff was just out in the open. No motivation to dig deeper and no athletes faced any serious allegations outside of the running community. One of the BTC athletes is caught red handed and comes up with a story that actually, imo, makes her sound more guilty (I would have been more likely to believe that she had no idea how a positive test came about than that she traced it to a specific food truck with the help of her attorney, I mean come on). No motivation to dig further. Coach and rest of the team face no serious allegations.
So really it’s kind of the same treatment from the mainstream press. They just don’t care enough to really dig past the obvious culprit. And the puff piece about a great female athlete treated unfairly is going to get more clicks from the general population than an article about a doper. Nobody cares about that. BTC support seems related to that reality. More like they don’t want her to feel completely alienated and pull a Landis than they actually want to keep her around. Their audience on this is not the Letsrun crowd believe it or not.
I don't get the Landis reference?
After serving his 4 tears and using the same lance/shelby defence. Landis went to lance for a spot on his team, lance denied. Landis' response was kind of a really? I know everything to take you down, you sure there isn't a spot on the team for me?
Shelby would drive to the Nike campus up to four times a week at the team’s regular time and the starting point for our regular daily runs together so she could run with us,” DeBues-Stafford said. “If she arrived before us, she would wait for BTC athletes at the meeting spot to see if any BTC athletes arrived so she could run with us. These sometimes included long runs. She also ran with the team on a regular basis at altitude camp in Flagstaff.” Houlihan said she and her attorney inquired about the rules of her ban and were told that she couldn’t go to any practices or work out with anyone on the team, but if she happened to bump into them and they were running at the same place, then she could run with them.
To get away from the he said / she said component, if I were an innocent athlete at the time, I’d try to follow to rules as closely as possible. This behavior confirms the rest while it was wasn’t the food truck perhaps, Shelby was dopping most likely, and got too close to the line to trigger a positive test.
if she is no longer a Nike employee why is she still allowed on campus? All of this taken together seems like she has violated the conditions of the doping ban.
And for supporters, how do you justify that we have known for years the science to catch doping is delayed 3-5 years for what athletes are trying.
It simply sounds like they found loopholes and exploited them.
There we have it. Legally she is allowed to do what she is doing. No one was forcing GDS to run with her. Anyone who still has a huge issue with this is obsessed with the demise of Shelby.
She is banned from competition not banned from running/training regardless of innocence or guilt or others very sensitive feelings(GDS, this messageboard).
If she still has to pass all doping protocols just like any other pro runner but she cannot compete how should this affect someone else further. If anyone else is worried about guilt by association then they have had over a year to leave by now.
Regarding the groups reputation
Its one thing for a the coach to be serving a doping ban than a single athlete serving one. NOP vs BTC vs Jama
Just because a member of the training group gets busted doesn't mean the whole group is dirty. It also isn't uncommon for a coach to believe in their training and the character of their athlete. ( Jerry believing in Shelby ) Now if the head of an organization gets busted that is very different and all of this would be as bad as you guys make it out to be.
I don't think there has ever been an athlete here on LetsRun as hated as Shelby H.
Um....ever heard of Galen Rupp?
I think with Rupp it was more dislike than hate. Posters just didn't like the guy. With Houlihan it has been kicked up to another level - mainly with how she has refused to admit her guilt, her bogus explanations for the positive tests, how her BTC teammate continue to defend her, how she skirts the rules of being banned and continues to train with her BTC mates, and how she just seems like a slimy person. If she had admitted her guilt, everyone here after some time would have forgiven her. Now she will forever be a track and field pariah. Reviled.
There we have it. Legally she is allowed to do what she is doing.
You have a different understanding of "if she happened to bump into them" than most people here. E.g., sitting in the regular parking spot waiting for the team to show up for their practice does not qualify as "happened to bump into them" imho.
It simply sounds like they found loopholes and exploited them.
There we have it. Legally she is allowed to do what she is doing. No one was forcing GDS to run with her. Anyone who still has a huge issue with this is obsessed with the demise of Shelby.
She is banned from competition not banned from running/training regardless of innocence or guilt or others very sensitive feelings(GDS, this messageboard).
If she still has to pass all doping protocols just like any other pro runner but she cannot compete how should this affect someone else further. If anyone else is worried about guilt by association then they have had over a year to leave by now.
Regarding the groups reputation
Its one thing for a the coach to be serving a doping ban than a single athlete serving one. NOP vs BTC vs Jama
Just because a member of the training group gets busted doesn't mean the whole group is dirty. It also isn't uncommon for a coach to believe in their training and the character of their athlete. ( Jerry believing in Shelby ) Now if the head of an organization gets busted that is very different and all of this would be as bad as you guys make it out to be.
Anyone putting the onus on GDS saying she is not "forced to run with her" is being disingenuous at this point.
GDS actually was "forced to run with her". She brought her concerns to her coaches and her coaches sided with the doper. They should have prioritized Gabriela, but they didn't. That's when GDS probably figured, she was on her own in this fight.
She had legitimate concerns running with a doper and they were dismissed. She was a part of the group and had moved her whole life to Portland. The onus should not have been on GDS, it should have been on the coaches at BTC to not allow someone serving a ban partake. Shelby, as a banned runner is not entitled to attending practice.
Shelby isn't banned from training but I do not see what she did as exploiting a loophole. I think she broke the rules. She wasn't bumping into anyone. She was driving to practice at Nike's campus and meeting up with them for runs. She was also going to Jerry's private gym at his house and working out with the team while staff are present. That's not a loop hole. That is breaking the rules.
As for the whole group being dirty. Well, Shalane Flanagan said it best:
"I think it’s really important to consider who you associate with. We don’t get to choose our parents, but we certainly get to choose our friends and our coaches and who we want to include in our circle and put our faith and our trust in. I think it’s really important to think about who you include in your professional circle in this sport, and I think that who you choose to allow in says a lot about you."
Oh please. You actually believe that Shelby's friends/training partners Cranny and Schweizer were not doping right along with her? When Schweizer ran that in AR time trial 5000 with Houlihan, and ran in the 14:30s, you think she did that clean? BTC was/is dirty as NOP before it.
The thing that annoys people about Shelby is that her doping was so laughably obvious and yet all we got was gaslighting and insults to our intelligence. So she shows a classic doping progression after college, then another a few years into her pro career? Well, the apologists said, maybe she was "undertrained", or was initially only an 800 runner (meet results be damned), or just a "freak talent". She runs in the 14:20s, crossing the Ma's Army line, after never running below 15:40 in college? Well maybe it is just hard work, because no one else in the sport works hard apparently. Plus, we were told, she seemed nice and went to college, and that such a person would allegedly never dope. And rather than keep a low profile about the issue, Shelby even publicly denied it. Then she gets caught and offers a truly incredible "defense" and sets up a go-fund me page. And finally, the cherry on top, she refuses to go away from the sport but blatantly stays around the BTC team, all the while professing her innocence. It just comes across as selfish and delusional.
Anyone putting the onus on GDS saying she is not "forced to run with her" is being disingenuous at this point.
As for the whole group being dirty. Well, Shalane Flanagan said it best:
"I think it’s really important to consider who you associate with. We don’t get to choose our parents, but we certainly get to choose our friends and our coaches and who we want to include in our circle and put our faith and our trust in. I think it’s really important to think about who you include in your professional circle in this sport, and I think that who you choose to allow in says a lot about you."
+1
LOL, Flanagan... She is also on the record with this, after Jeptoo’s positive test before Chicago (before it was clear that she also doped before Boston):
I looked at her literally as a stealer of a moment and a really special moment. It’s one that can never be given back. I look at all dopers, and I don’t even look at the money. Yes, they steal money. But they’re stealers of dreams and stealers of moments.
...
Let’s say someone is working at a bank and they embezzle a bunch of money. The bank says, hey, you embezzled a bunch of money, so we’re going to fire you. You can’t work here anymore. But in, like, five years you can come back. We’re not going to get the money from you. You can keep the money. So you get, like, a five-year vacation. To me, these athletes need to give back the money that they stole from the other athletes and I believe that all the accolades should be erased from that day forward. They should not have any accolades to go with that.
It simply sounds like they found loopholes and exploited them.
There we have it. Legally she is allowed to do what she is doing. No one was forcing GDS to run with her. Anyone who still has a huge issue with this is obsessed with the demise of Shelby.
She is banned from competition not banned from running/training regardless of innocence or guilt or others very sensitive feelings(GDS, this messageboard).
*Conveniently leaves out the fact that an anti doping organisation couldn’t guarantee that Shelby wasn’t breaking the rules of her ban and advised GDS to leave and submit a tip to the AIU*
Of course Shelby and her lawyer would say she never broke the rules.
Or she is innocent and her mental health is at an all time low ....think about that for a second before you judge her !!!!b
Look, we've all had done things in our lives which we are not proud of, and which adversely affect our mental health and relationships both professional and personal. But we own up to them if we want to go forward, make amends, and try to live better. SH's explanation literally makes no sense, and it buggers logic that she's sticking to this story. Perhaps she'll be exonerated and all of the naysayers will be made to look like fools, but in all honesty, that seems highly unlikely. People need to own their sh*t, and people generally do not take well to being duped and the transgressor insisting upon their own victimhood.
Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but: as an American, I can think of few sports where the records mean as much as track and field. Baseball, perhaps, but that has more to do with its role as the national past time and the (perhaps outdated) role they play in hall-of-fame inductions. To my mind, running has two things only: the time and the wins. There is an elemental simplicity to the sport--even more so than biking IMO--and the doping surrounding the sport really screws with the essential spirit of the sport. And there is a feeling among many fans of Athletics that the sport is in crisis.
I could compare this to other sports--and I'm sure that others here have and can do so with greater aplomb than me--and in doing such a comparison, may realize I'm wrong in this claim. However, I'm writing this with my gut, and there's something that feels very morally dubious about SH's behavior and her own self-lionization. Yes, plenty of athletes dope, and some of them get caught. Those that do often take a more humble approach than SH, and perhaps that's where many commenters vitriol lies.
It simply sounds like they found loopholes and exploited them.
There we have it. Legally she is allowed to do what she is doing. No one was forcing GDS to run with her. Anyone who still has a huge issue with this is obsessed with the demise of Shelby.
She is banned from competition not banned from running/training regardless of innocence or guilt or others very sensitive feelings(GDS, this messageboard).
If she still has to pass all doping protocols just like any other pro runner but she cannot compete how should this affect someone else further. If anyone else is worried about guilt by association then they have had over a year to leave by now.
Regarding the groups reputation
Its one thing for a the coach to be serving a doping ban than a single athlete serving one. NOP vs BTC vs Jama
Just because a member of the training group gets busted doesn't mean the whole group is dirty. It also isn't uncommon for a coach to believe in their training and the character of their athlete. ( Jerry believing in Shelby ) Now if the head of an organization gets busted that is very different and all of this would be as bad as you guys make it out to be.
All that and more. Has anyone actually identified the source of the 'unusual metabolites'? They aren't a well known form of Nandrolone are they?
Or she is innocent and her mental health is at an all time low ....think about that for a second before you judge her !!!!b
Look, we've all had done things in our lives which we are not proud of, and which adversely affect our mental health and relationships both professional and personal. But we own up to them if we want to go forward, make amends, and try to live better. SH's explanation literally makes no sense, and it buggers logic that she's sticking to this story. Perhaps she'll be exonerated and all of the naysayers will be made to look like fools, but in all honesty, that seems highly unlikely. People need to own their sh*t, and people generally do not take well to being duped and the transgressor insisting upon their own victimhood.
Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but: as an American, I can think of few sports where the records mean as much as track and field. Baseball, perhaps, but that has more to do with its role as the national past time and the (perhaps outdated) role they play in hall-of-fame inductions. To my mind, running has two things only: the time and the wins. There is an elemental simplicity to the sport--even more so than biking IMO--and the doping surrounding the sport really screws with the essential spirit of the sport. And there is a feeling among many fans of Athletics that the sport is in crisis.
I could compare this to other sports--and I'm sure that others here have and can do so with greater aplomb than me--and in doing such a comparison, may realize I'm wrong in this claim. However, I'm writing this with my gut, and there's something that feels very morally dubious about SH's behavior and her own self-lionization. Yes, plenty of athletes dope, and some of them get caught. Those that do often take a more humble approach than SH, and perhaps that's where many commenters vitriol lies.
We have to move away from old school doping psychology. These substances don't 'enhance' people biologically.
Anti-doping is a weird mind game that authoritarian figures like to make rhetorical speeches about. It's phoney morality because it's actually pro-doping in disguise.
Real anti-doping is educating young people that they won't perform better than their natural biology will allow. So don't give in to peer pressure.
Because of wokeness, “protected classes” believe they can do no wrong. This is a continuation of that.
Can't you come up with a better conspiracy theory than that?
This whole case was about whether or not she was Tokyo Olympic material or not. Think about the political shenanigans that go on in the run up to the Olympic Games and join the dots.
Look, we've all had done things in our lives which we are not proud of, and which adversely affect our mental health and relationships both professional and personal. But we own up to them if we want to go forward, make amends, and try to live better. SH's explanation literally makes no sense, and it buggers logic that she's sticking to this story. Perhaps she'll be exonerated and all of the naysayers will be made to look like fools, but in all honesty, that seems highly unlikely. People need to own their sh*t, and people generally do not take well to being duped and the transgressor insisting upon their own victimhood.
Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, but: as an American, I can think of few sports where the records mean as much as track and field. Baseball, perhaps, but that has more to do with its role as the national past time and the (perhaps outdated) role they play in hall-of-fame inductions. To my mind, running has two things only: the time and the wins. There is an elemental simplicity to the sport--even more so than biking IMO--and the doping surrounding the sport really screws with the essential spirit of the sport. And there is a feeling among many fans of Athletics that the sport is in crisis.
I could compare this to other sports--and I'm sure that others here have and can do so with greater aplomb than me--and in doing such a comparison, may realize I'm wrong in this claim. However, I'm writing this with my gut, and there's something that feels very morally dubious about SH's behavior and her own self-lionization. Yes, plenty of athletes dope, and some of them get caught. Those that do often take a more humble approach than SH, and perhaps that's where many commenters vitriol lies.
We have to move away from old school doping psychology. These substances don't 'enhance' people biologically.
Anti-doping is a weird mind game that authoritarian figures like to make rhetorical speeches about. It's phoney morality because it's actually pro-doping in disguise.
Real anti-doping is educating young people that they won't perform better than their natural biology will allow. So don't give in to peer pressure.
J don't agree with you but even if you're right it's irrelevant here. There are rules in place and consequences for breaking them if you're caught. You don't get to ignore those rules even if they're outdated.
We have to move away from old school doping psychology. These substances don't 'enhance' people biologically.
Anti-doping is a weird mind game that authoritarian figures like to make rhetorical speeches about. It's phoney morality because it's actually pro-doping in disguise.
Real anti-doping is educating young people that they won't perform better than their natural biology will allow. So don't give in to peer pressure.
J don't agree with you but even if you're right it's irrelevant here. There are rules in place and consequences for breaking them if you're caught. You don't get to ignore those rules even if they're outdated.
Just how many substances need to be added to the list to satisfy this fantasy?