coach wrote:
Grampa Joe wrote:
My question would be why did "the actor" have the gun, prop or not, pointed at the director of photography in the first place?
Maybe they were practicing for a scene.
Why would "they" need to "practice" shooting a supposed prop gun on a live set? That make no sense.
Flagpole wrote:
Charles Bukowski wrote:
I'm not a murderer.
Neither is Baldwin. You are BOTH pricks though.
Really? He literally shot and killed his co-worker with a handgun.
walk offs wrote:
It seems this Alec Baldwin epic film was extreme low budget. So low that the workers insufficient and over worked, to the point that the entire camera crew walked off the set hours before Baldwin shot two people. That could explain why the director of photography would have been behind the camera, and not the regular cameraperson.
Also of note is that Alec Baldwin one of the film producers. So, he is liable for much of what happens on the set.
Sounds like this is on Baldwin any way you look at it.
First, he literally shot and killed a co-worker using a handgun. And put another co-worker in the hospital. Those are facts. One dead. Another in the hospital. WTF?
Second, he was the producer, so it's his responsibility to arrange for proper safety control, which he did not do, obviously. He likely cut corners so he could make more money. The crew walkout would support this view.
What a horrible person.
Charles Bukowski wrote:
walk offs wrote:
It seems this Alec Baldwin epic film was extreme low budget. So low that the workers insufficient and over worked, to the point that the entire camera crew walked off the set hours before Baldwin shot two people. That could explain why the director of photography would have been behind the camera, and not the regular cameraperson.
Also of note is that Alec Baldwin one of the film producers. So, he is liable for much of what happens on the set.
Sounds like this is on Baldwin any way you look at it.
First, he literally shot and killed a co-worker using a handgun. And put another co-worker in the hospital. Those are facts. One dead. Another in the hospital. WTF?
Second, he was the producer, so it's his responsibility to arrange for proper safety control, which he did not do, obviously. He likely cut corners so he could make more money. The crew walkout would support this view.
What a horrible person.
"Involuntary Manslaughter
Involuntary manslaughter is the unintentional killing of a person while committing a misdemeanor criminal offense. Involuntary manslaughter can also occur if a person is engaging in a lawful act but unintentionally kills someone by being negligent or not exercising due care. Involuntary manslaughter is classified as a fourth-degree felony with sentencing up to 18 months in prison and probation."
https://newmexicocriminallaw.com/whats-the-difference-between-homicide-murder-and-manslaughter-2/Flagpole wrote:
THAT is a fair question. As I have already said, if there was negligence on Baldwin's part, I will excoriate him. They have still said they were filming a scene. I HOPE it wasn't something where he was fooling around and pointing the gun and pulling the trigger. I'm sure we will find out.
That question has already been answered. In any movie like this there would be points where the camera focus is on the person firing the gun from the point of view of someone (in this case the camera) looking directly at the shooter - so Baldwin would be firing directly at the camera or nearly so. The director and the cinematographer would be standing right next to each other. So it makes complete sense that if there was prop mishap, those might be the ones injured/killed in this situation.
Also there are ton's of rules around these types of scenes and they are followed as evidenced by the fact that there are thousands and thousands of these scenes filmed yet very few accidents. Though statistically improbable, mistakes do happen, but that does not mean anyone was trying to intentionally harm anyone (that would be the most highly unlikely scenario)
This thread (like many others here) is a wonderful display of our innate biases - many of those who don't like Baldwin have taken the very few facts that are available and filled out a complete story where he is the culprit or at very least deserving of scorn. Those who do like him, are convinced he has no blame in this.
It is certainly possible he is in some way culpable as there are redundancies to prevent these accidents and I imagine the actor is possibly the last of these redundancies. Its also possible that it is not his fault at all and others will take the blame.
The only thing virtually certain is that nobody on this thread knows why this accident occurred, who is at fault, or exactly what mistakes were made. I imagine that those answers will come out in due course - then you can twist the real story to fit your bias, whatever that bias is.
Grampa Joe wrote:
Charles Bukowski wrote:
Sounds like this is on Baldwin any way you look at it.
First, he literally shot and killed a co-worker using a handgun. And put another co-worker in the hospital. Those are facts. One dead. Another in the hospital. WTF?
Second, he was the producer, so it's his responsibility to arrange for proper safety control, which he did not do, obviously. He likely cut corners so he could make more money. The crew walkout would support this view.
What a horrible person.
"Involuntary Manslaughter
Involuntary manslaughter is the unintentional killing of a person while committing a misdemeanor criminal offense. Involuntary manslaughter can also occur if a person is engaging in a lawful act but unintentionally kills someone by being negligent or not exercising due care. Involuntary manslaughter is classified as a fourth-degree felony with sentencing up to 18 months in prison and probation."
https://newmexicocriminallaw.com/whats-the-difference-between-homicide-murder-and-manslaughter-2/
You don't know it was "involuntary". His rage, hate and anger is well-documented.
BS wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
THAT is a fair question. As I have already said, if there was negligence on Baldwin's part, I will excoriate him. They have still said they were filming a scene. I HOPE it wasn't something where he was fooling around and pointing the gun and pulling the trigger. I'm sure we will find out.
That question has already been answered. In any movie like this there would be points where the camera focus is on the person firing the gun from the point of view of someone (in this case the camera) looking directly at the shooter - so Baldwin would be firing directly at the camera or nearly so. The director and the cinematographer would be standing right next to each other. So it makes complete sense that if there was prop mishap, those might be the ones injured/killed in this situation.
Also there are ton's of rules around these types of scenes and they are followed as evidenced by the fact that there are thousands and thousands of these scenes filmed yet very few accidents. Though statistically improbable, mistakes do happen, but that does not mean anyone was trying to intentionally harm anyone (that would be the most highly unlikely scenario)
This thread (like many others here) is a wonderful display of our innate biases - many of those who don't like Baldwin have taken the very few facts that are available and filled out a complete story where he is the culprit or at very least deserving of scorn. Those who do like him, are convinced he has no blame in this.
It is certainly possible he is in some way culpable as there are redundancies to prevent these accidents and I imagine the actor is possibly the last of these redundancies. Its also possible that it is not his fault at all and others will take the blame.
The only thing virtually certain is that nobody on this thread knows why this accident occurred, who is at fault, or exactly what mistakes were made. I imagine that those answers will come out in due course - then you can twist the real story to fit your bias, whatever that bias is.
He was the producer. He is responsible for keeping people safe. One dead, one in the hospital.
Hopefully he ends up in jail and hopefully he loses a massive civil lawsuit.
This article makes it seem like it was a disaster waiting to happen
Possibly one of the disgruntled union folks put a live round in the gun before they left.
My original post was more how it could happen with a prop gun. Surprising it had a live round of real ammo in it so something is a little fishy here. It would be rare to have live rounds on a movie set unless it was a specific stunt scene where things were supposed to be blown up by the live rounds and this is actually a rare example as the risk of errant shots is high so these scenes would be closely regulated and lots of supporting staff and specific safety training before the scene. These scenes were more common before special effects and CGI. Not knowing the script it's hard to hazard a guess why there would be a scene in the movie involving live rounds but if the director and other staff were close enough to get shot it wasn't a scene that was planned to have live rounds, safety procedures would preclude anyone being in the line of fire. Seems like perhaps an accident like the one that killed Brandon Lee but as a result of that tragedy a whole host of safety procedures were added to any scene involving a weapon, prop, real or otherwise.
wazzu1452 wrote:
Alec Baldwin has killed more people than Trump supporters on January 6.
More than the NRA nd not nearly as much as Planned Parenthood.
No problem wrote:
wazzu1452 wrote:
Alec Baldwin has killed more people than Trump supporters on January 6.
More than the NRA nd not nearly as much as Planned Parenthood.
Planned Parenthood epically failed in the case of you two. What is the point of this verbal sparring? I imagine it makes you feel closer to adequate than you typically do.
18rabbitskiing wrote:
My original post was more how it could happen with a prop gun. Surprising it had a live round of real ammo in it so something is a little fishy here. It would be rare to have live rounds on a movie set unless it was a specific stunt scene where things were supposed to be blown up by the live rounds and this is actually a rare example as the risk of errant shots is high so these scenes would be closely regulated and lots of supporting staff and specific safety training before the scene. These scenes were more common before special effects and CGI. Not knowing the script it's hard to hazard a guess why there would be a scene in the movie involving live rounds but if the director and other staff were close enough to get shot it wasn't a scene that was planned to have live rounds, safety procedures would preclude anyone being in the line of fire. Seems like perhaps an accident like the one that killed Brandon Lee but as a result of that tragedy a whole host of safety procedures were added to any scene involving a weapon, prop, real or otherwise.
Exactly. And as producer, Baldwin is responsible for ensuring that safety measures have been implemented. Gross negligence on his part.
wazzu1452 wrote:
Alec Baldwin has killed more people than Trump supporters on January 6.
How do you know this? Assuming that Jan 6 was an average day, there were ~50 murders throughout the US. How do you know that no more than 2% of the murders on that day were committed by people who support Trump?
Charles Bukowski wrote:
18rabbitskiing wrote:
My original post was more how it could happen with a prop gun. Surprising it had a live round of real ammo in it so something is a little fishy here. It would be rare to have live rounds on a movie set unless it was a specific stunt scene where things were supposed to be blown up by the live rounds and this is actually a rare example as the risk of errant shots is high so these scenes would be closely regulated and lots of supporting staff and specific safety training before the scene. These scenes were more common before special effects and CGI. Not knowing the script it's hard to hazard a guess why there would be a scene in the movie involving live rounds but if the director and other staff were close enough to get shot it wasn't a scene that was planned to have live rounds, safety procedures would preclude anyone being in the line of fire. Seems like perhaps an accident like the one that killed Brandon Lee but as a result of that tragedy a whole host of safety procedures were added to any scene involving a weapon, prop, real or otherwise.
Exactly. And as producer, Baldwin is responsible for ensuring that safety measures have been implemented. Gross negligence on his part.
OK it appears that Alec Baldwin may have been grossly negligent. You fail epically at logic if you believe this is related to his politics.
Dude, the LA Times article says "live round" in the industry just means that it was ready for firing and could have been a blank. "A source close to union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun being loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming."
18rabbitskiing wrote:
My original post was more how it could happen with a prop gun. Surprising it had a live round of real ammo in it so something is a little fishy here. It would be rare to have live rounds on a movie set unless it was a specific stunt scene where things were supposed to be blown up by the live rounds and this is actually a rare example as the risk of errant shots is high so these scenes would be closely regulated and lots of supporting staff and specific safety training before the scene. These scenes were more common before special effects and CGI. Not knowing the script it's hard to hazard a guess why there would be a scene in the movie involving live rounds but if the director and other staff were close enough to get shot it wasn't a scene that was planned to have live rounds, safety procedures would preclude anyone being in the line of fire. Seems like perhaps an accident like the one that killed Brandon Lee but as a result of that tragedy a whole host of safety procedures were added to any scene involving a weapon, prop, real or otherwise.
This post was removed.
And anyone following should have subsequently checked non-union or union, including Baldwin. And Baldwin took deliberate aim. Not off to the side, where camera angle coulde, but straight aim. This is totally on him but nothing will come of it, again. Peons get killed, the kings continue to rule.
Peder wrote:
Charles Bukowski wrote:
Exactly. And as producer, Baldwin is responsible for ensuring that safety measures have been implemented. Gross negligence on his part.
OK it appears that Alec Baldwin may have been grossly negligent. You fail epically at logic if you believe this is related to his politics.
Where did he say it’s related to politics?
Charles Bukowski wrote:
rojo wrote:
Why are people trying to make this some political thing? It's a tragedy. But if you are going to make it political, i this supports his belief in in gun control. As even a prop gun is dangerous.
Why? Because Baldwin, an actor, makes everything political. That's he he wants it.
The above poster asked a question about politics. Here is your answer. Bukowski is trying to make a political point but failing epically.
No scholarship limits anymore! (NCAA Track and Field inequality is going to get way worse, right?)
Does not wanting my kids to watch a bisexual threesome at the Olympics make me a bigot?
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
Matt Fox/SweatElite harasses one of his clients after they called him out