Serious thread about election fraud

Here's a nice article about what happens when Trump's so-called experts make their way to a courtroom, to present their "evidence". Here's a taste of what Trump was bringing to the table:

Ramsland, a former Republican congressional candidate, is by now widely known for botching a critical difference between Michigan and Minnesota data because of apparent confusion over the postal abbreviations for those states. (For the record, Minnesota is MN; Michigan is MI.)

https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/heres-how-georgias-lawyers-destroyed-sidney-powells-wildly-unqualified-election-malfeasance-experts/

And just to clarify something, a "claim" or an "allegation" is not "evidence" of anything. I can claim that you have two heads; just because I say it does not make it so.

johnny99 wrote:

...

And just to clarify something, a "claim" or an "allegation" is not "evidence" of anything. I can claim that you have two heads; just because I say it does not make it so.

Wrong. A sworn affidavit accusing someone of a crime absolutely IS evidence in court. You got your talking points and no thinking. It's pitiful.

DiscoGary wrote:

Now I'm just curious. After all that can any of you Dems see why people like me think the election was stolen? Even if you don't believe it was, can you see where I'm coming from? Can you put yourself in the other guy's shoes?

I say you can't.

I can't put myself in your shoes. It's not so much that you read wildly sketchy, biased, and untruthful websites. But you apparently believe what you read there without seeking confirmation from some more credible source. At the same time, you not only reject information presented by more credible sources (because Trump has beaten into your head that anything to the left of Breitbart is fake news), but you totally ignore what's happened in over 50 courtrooms.

Believing tweets, press conferences and media sound bites over what dozens of judges have found after Trump has been given the opportunity to present his case is delusional to a degree that I cannot understand.

DiscoGary wrote:

johnny99 wrote:

...

And just to clarify something, a "claim" or an "allegation" is not "evidence" of anything. I can claim that you have two heads; just because I say it does not make it so.

Wrong. A sworn affidavit accusing someone of a crime absolutely IS evidence in court. You got your talking points and no thinking. It's pitiful.

It is defined as evidence by the courts, and then consistently found by the courts to be woefully inadequate to prove fraud whenever presented.

I think the technical description would be that you have provided evidence of little to no probative value.

DiscoGary wrote:

Now I'm just curious. After all that can any of you Dems see why people like me think the election was stolen? Even if you don't believe it was, can you see where I'm coming from? Can you put yourself in the other guy's shoes?

I say you can't.

I see states where mail-in votes were not counted until midnight and later on election night, during an unheard-of global pandemic environment, after a sitting president urged his supporters to vote in person. This data is consistent, as is the overall trend in areas when compared to previous elections.

There might be "your shoes," but there's also this thing called math. Nothing is out of range in this election year.

And the only "dead voters" incidents I know of are Trump voters voting for Trump.

Are you saying that you are, in fact, more informed than thousands of lawyers and judges who were largely appointed by our current president? Do you realize Biden is president on Jan. 20?

DiscoGary wrote:

johnny99 wrote:

...

And just to clarify something, a "claim" or an "allegation" is not "evidence" of anything. I can claim that you have two heads; just because I say it does not make it so.

Wrong. A sworn affidavit accusing someone of a crime absolutely IS evidence in court. You got your talking points and no thinking. It's pitiful.

You fail Evidence 101, counselor.

An accusation contained in a sworn affidavit is an accusation, not evidence.

Now, if somebody swears in an affidavit to have personal knowledge of something, you may have evidence. I.E. I saw something, I heard something, I did something. But an affidavit that says I was a poll observer and I think something fraudulent was going on is evidence of nothing.

At trial, an affidavit would generally not be admissible in place of live witness testimony. There may be some circumstances, however, where a trial judge will admit an affidavit into evidence or the parties may stipulate to put an affidavit into evidence. I cannot think of any circumstance where an affidavit accusing someone of a crime would be admitted at trial; the live testimony of a witness would be required.

An affidavit may be more useful in a pre-trial motion or to obtain an injunction or a search warrant. But again, at trial, when you've got to present your best evidence, an affidavit generally won't cut it.

And this is precisely how the 50 court cases were tossed out. The "elite strike team" would haul in affidavits, then when questioned by judges, say they were not suggesting fraud or deceit. I wonder why that is?

You do understand that those "credible sources" are censoring this stuff? They censored Hunter Biden's laptop scandal just before the election. They are misleading their readers.

To my mind the most damning evidence is the statistical anomalies, because you can claim voter fraud all day, but if you can't see it happening in the numbers then it probably didn't happen. In this case everything lines up. The setup for fraud, millions of unsecured ballots, the eye witness accounts, the timing of big vote jumps for Biden, kicking out poll watchers, the places where Biden outperformed Obama. It all adds up to systemic voter fraud designed to make sure Biden won.

But none of you will ever know it! Your "credible" sources will say it didn't happen. The Big Lie will be repeated until it becomes the truth. You are watching that happen. You are part of it.

Once again my view of the world has been confirmed. Thank you. Well, I got what I came for. I hope you guys got something out of this.

Now go take your meds. You need them.

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

Now go take your meds. You need them.

Thanks for watching out for me. For you, I recommend taking the red pill.

DiscoGary wrote:

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

Now go take your meds. You need them.

Thanks for watching out for me. For you, I recommend taking the red pill.

According to the filmmaker, The Matrix and 'the red pill' is a trans metaphor, not a conspiracy theorists wet dream:

Hey Disco Gary:

Read this article and make sure you fully understand what it means before you post again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

You keep saying "censored" despite the fact we all had every last detail shoved down our throats from both sides. I have read more about this "censored" voter fraud than any other news issue, save COVID, this year. Just because you want to be the persecuted victim... doesn't mean you are.

DiscoGary wrote:

Now I'm just curious. After all that can any of you Dems see why people like me think the election was stolen? Even if you don't believe it was, can you see where I'm coming from? Can you put yourself in the other guy's shoes?

I say you can't.

I can see why you think the election was stolen, it's because Trump was building this story up about mail votes in advance of his defeat. I can appreciate that a Trump supporter would believe the election was stolen, because that's the rhetoric that has been forced on you from above.

But that understanding is diminishing after every failed court case. To most people, including Republicans, it is now clear that Trump is just a guy who doesn't understand defeat (when his businesses faltered, his daddy was there to bail him out, he's never had to struggle, he's never had to lose (he can usually afford the lawyers to turn a defeat to a victory)).

He has a very polarising personality, it is very difficult to understand why other people would love/hate him when you hate/love him. This election had virtually nothing to do with Joe Boden, but was a popularity contest about Trump. Outside of America, America is a laughing stock and it's hard to find any support for Trump outside of Brazil's own divisive leader and some parts of Israeli government.

But outside of Trump's own mind and certain websites, he lost fair and square

It's unbelievable this thread is still up. There can be no serious thread about election fraud because election fraud does not exist in the US.

I'll use Rhode Island as an example.

Population: 1,059,361

Counties: 5

Voting Precincts: 419

I'm guessing on average it takes about 10 people to staff a polling location and usually a few cops working in rotation.

That's ~4100 people in Rhode Island who would have the chance of seeing voter fraud happening and blowing the whistle on it.

So either 4100 people are in on the scam and everyone is so trustworthy they can keep the secret under wraps or voting fraud on the massive scale the Trumplicans claim can't ever happen.

If you are so sure of voter fraud on such a wide scale please point me to the case where it was caught and prosecuted.

DiscoGary wrote:

Now I'm just curious. After all that can any of you Dems see why people like me think the election was stolen? Even if you don't believe it was, can you see where I'm coming from? Can you put yourself in the other guy's shoes?

I say you can't.

I can see why someone would decide to vote for Trump. I can see getting committed to his presidency. I can see how that would color one’s interpretation of the data.

I can also imagine lots of people have trouble interpreting data.

I can’t see someone who is good at interpreting data and works hard to account for their own biases could think that there was sufficient fraud to swing the election from one candidate to the other.

TONS more evidence? So the republican controlled senate, the republican executive branch and all the dozens of conservative judges are just ignoring the evidence? None of what anyone is saying about election fraud makes any sense, nothing has been proven and never will. In the 1st 2 years of Trumps presidency they had a majority in both houses and could have done anything they wanted regarding election law and investigations but they didn't do one thing. Instead they tried to take away peoples health care (and couldn't even do that right) and gave massive tax breaks for the ultra rich. So the republicans really have no one to blame but themselves for any election irregulates real or perceived.

DiscoGary wrote:

There's TONS more evidence like all the eye witness testimony of fraud at the hearings, etc.

trashcan wrote:

I can see why someone would decide to vote for Trump. I can see getting committed to his presidency.

I can't so clue me in!

I was a left-leaning republican. Voted for McCain then Obama. When this guy mocked a physically disabled reporter I became an instant democrat until he is gone and the party is restored.

I surmise that if you are very wealthy, own your own business or work for one that benefits by throwing environmental policies out the window, or are so committed to pro-life you might be pro-trump. How your moral compass allows his mocking and degrading minorities, women, and those that need help, I simply can't speak for you.

The very people that support him the most are most hurt by his and the GOP policies.

Please tell me how you can see why someone voted for him.

Couldn't agree more!

george co wrote:

trashcan wrote:

I can see why someone would decide to vote for Trump. I can see getting committed to his presidency.

I can't so clue me in!

I was a left-leaning republican. Voted for McCain then Obama. When this guy mocked a physically disabled reporter I became an instant democrat until he is gone and the party is restored.

I surmise that if you are very wealthy, own your own business or work for one that benefits by throwing environmental policies out the window, or are so committed to pro-life you might be pro-trump. How your moral compass allows his mocking and degrading minorities, women, and those that need help, I simply can't speak for you.

The very people that support him the most are most hurt by his and the GOP policies.

Please tell me how you can see why someone voted for him.