Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Just wondering if the double threshold is maybe more suited to ST types, and EIM more suited to more FT types?

I have been looking at a lot of people's training on the Strava group like many others. I think you will be surprised at how many people's training fits pretty well into what was outlined on like page 1 of this thread. It not a perfect fit, but for hobby joggers remarkable how well this stands true. Obviously, you need to know correct fitness. But if you do a mixture of the spreadsheet some dude made on Strava + Hard2find amazing work on VDOT and the different threshold paces, is quite extraordinary how neatly this seems to fit into those that this is working for. I actually don't mind your posts Lexel , even if others think you are troll. But I think sometimes you have a real urge to be right, when often you cannot see wood through the trees and just focus on what you think you want to see. Just my opinion.

This is not double threshold. You totally misunderstood the thread if you think it is.

Thanks, that's a useful comparison. I only found this thread recently so had better read the whole thing to get all the nuances.

I am a very pratical guy, you would not believe that, and i see that on page 50++ (after over 1000 posts!!!) there are still questions about the 'correct pace'. Is that normal for you? Do you think everything is clear? With a little bit of awareness, just a tiny bit, some could realize that the 'pace thing' did not went through. The only thing you need to be is to be observant. Not all have that gift. So i do not care how you declare my posts.

I can't be the only one who finds Lexel one of the most annoying and arrogant posters on LRC? Posts absolute drivel. Claims he knows everything, but what he really knows you can write on the back of a dollar coin. Other than him and that idiot JS , great thread.

You're totally entitled to your own opinion, not least because this is subjective, but "most annoying and arrogant" is a very, very high bar to clear here (or low limbo stick to scoot oneself under?). I don't see that.

Whoa there cowboy. I think just about everyone who's read this thread would agree Lexel is an idiot, who's own arrogance and lack of knowledge can get in the way of what could be interesting conversation or debate. He's out of his depth in this thread and has been exposed, without doubt. But you went to far, comparing him to JS. That man is an actual sociopath.

Is now your hate and frustration better? Does that help you in your poor life? All anonymous posts, so sense and pointless. No meening, nonames, bla bleh blue, sillyness endless. Comes nothing. Waste of time. Good reflection of society, like someone mentioned.

Sirpoc and Hard2Find were an enrichment.

Lexel, some friendly advice. Firstly, you have provided some good links in this thread, I think you attitude, which stinks by the way, has overshadowed that. If you look back at your posts at the start, they were engaging. As the thread has gone, your attitude has soured when you've quickly realised there is a great way that is working here, for a bunch of people, but it might mean you are wrong with your beliefs or they might need to be open minded. Which, is one thing you are not. You're so locked into your beliefs, it's astounding. You also deleted, or had deleted a post scathing at everyone a few pages back, where you fully went in on everyone, basically saying they should all be glad you come here to educate them and you will post what you want. I know this as it popped up as I was reading the thread from start to finish. Probably posters regret and a dirty delete. This isn't a troll thread. It's a very good thread. The hate is a bit over the top towards you, but you now have almost become a cartoon character of a madman, sitting in the corner rocking, spouting something about CV, saying one day, one day they will listen!!!! As if tinman wasn't making the same posts, near on 20 years ago. Yes, I've been reading this forum that long. I just thought I would give you something to think about, you can be better, I think. You aren't JS, but you are on the slippery slope.

I gave nothing to your advice, because you are a wrong person.

I would not wonder if you are this European moderator who censored my post. Also you are a liar, as this censored post, was designated by me to a handful of posters. You say i attacked everyone there, which is just a lie.

You are prententious. It is pretentious to tell someone what he has to write and how he has to write it. Free speech.

It is pretentious to compare me with an other poster which you don't like. Kindergarten niveau. I have btw no problem with J.S, he is always friendly to me. He tries to sell his training ideas, which helped him. If you can't stand this it is your problem.

Don't dish something out which you can't take it sucker. Your character is here the only slippery slope i see here.

Despite lexel’s approach, he has some basis in his assertions about CS and CP.

It may surprise you, but I just did lactate testing at the track today (I own the meter and have taken hundreds of samples) and CS/CP testing about two weeks ago. CS and CP lined up soooo well with LT2. Like really well for me. This may not work for everyone, but it’s certainly good for me.

Anyways, for me, I can do sub threshold workouts based on CS and save some money on strips. Might be usefulness for those who don’t have a good threshold identified.

The key to Iglói's methods was interval training. Arduous training sessions twice a day sought to develop both speed and stamina. A typical Iglói session involved tens of repetitions of sprints of up to 400 metres with only short jog recoveries, distance run in the longest and hardest sessions totaling up to as much as 35 kilometers.[6] Compared to other similar interval training systems, Iglói's had an emphasis on repetitions of such short sprints as 100 or 200 metres. His method was also inspired by the 'style' running of the 1930s [7] in that he never used a stop watch but regarded his runners intensely and broke up the set of intervals when the described speed (e.g. 'good swing tempo') could no longer be run as relaxed as demanded [8]

YAP YAP YAP I DONT CARE DO YOU TAKE EBT??

I am currently training for XC know and I was wondering if doing 2 tempo / threshold run over a 48 hours span might simulate the threshold stimulus for someone running "moderate" mileage ? (55 miles / week).

I did a one hour up tempo run today. Tomorrow I planed to do 12*600 m @threshold with short rest (40 sec) on XC terrain.

I just thought I would update the thread with a few things.

One thing I will add to the excellent post by "summary" on the previous page, is I am NOT saying this is the way you must train or the only way to train. Maybe in the middle of the pages, what has got lost is the CTL and TSS talk (I think I explained it reasonably well, as quite a few people I speak to regularly are using it?). What I have always said and maintain - this being the key point; is that if you are correctly tracking your data, daily TSS and CTL , there's a good chance that you will be fitter/faster , the higher it goes, pretty much no matter HOW you get there.

My example before was when I was injured on the bike, I did the turbo trainer for an insane amount of time day after day, raised my CTL to record heights and did a power PB with a healed collarbone a few weeks later. This was purely zone 1/2 riding. But the point being with sub threshold, it's the easiest/quickest way to get a high CTL (fitness score for those not using intervals icu, same thing) being time crunched and without the extra injury risk the real hard stuff brings (as well as the relative extra recovery needed). I could get the same CTL riding sweetspot, in around half the time I did with all that easy riding and my power the next year was almost identical.

I just thought I would add that, as I think that is being lost a bit. I stick by my initial posts on paces (Hard2find I think has provided an amazing resource) but this isn't the only way to train. A big "if" but if my body could handle a Daniels schedule on more hours I'm doing now (spoiler, it likely can't) , then I would probably get faster .

FWIW , I'll put this out there, stuff I have shared with jiggy, Hard2find and shirtboy, is that since my CTL was "50" (that was as high as I could get it a more classic style) by pb at 5k has roughly gone up 8 seconds, for every extra CTL point. It's not perfectly near, but there is a clear pattern and trend.

Final note on that, I'm also working on the assumption for running, as it was on the bike it didn't really matter HOW I increased my training load, each CTL point was worth about 1.5w in FTP, up to the point I literally couldn't fit anymore into my lifestyle.

Anyway, I don't get a huge amount of time at the moment to contribute to this thread as much as I want, but hopefully some of your find that interesting and just to clear up I'm not saying this is the way you HAVE to train, but I still say based on the experience from both sports and seeing what others are doing, it's likely going to get you there in the most time efficient way.

This is perhaps the most significant/ game changing piece of information in this thread. I hope it doesn't get overlooked

It pretty much explains most of this. I wonder how neatly it applies to others. I can only imagine those who respond to the Norwegian method, you can apply similar patterns of bigger load = faster time and other parameters, but individualised.

Ai bot

I'm new to this. What pace should I run mile repeats at with current fitness of 18:30 5k?

If I could run 18:00 what pace would the mile repeats be then?

If your 18:30 5K was truly all-out, that would give you a threshold pace of 6:23/mi per VDOT calculator.

So ideally, you would your mile repeats somewhat slower, in the ballpark of 6:25-6:30, and maybe even slower depending on conditions and course.