This thread was originally titled, "Incredible development in the $612,000 Transcon Goodge run, currently ongoing" but the new title is more descriptive. The description of the run is here.
Still, 19:35. It's a slow crawl for goodness sake. Equiv to 16 or so on the flat!
Wrong again - grade adjusted pace is 10min/mile. and lets not forget its rugged trails too, not a smooth tarmac incline.
Anyone who runs in the mountains can tell you that your heart rate doesn't plummet into the 90s when pushing up a steep hill. There was so much more that was wrong with the HR data on this run, but you passed the whole run off as 'clean as a whistle'
I think so much is happening now with this increase in pace as they wonder whether to go after Lees, and his now clearly impossible running that we can take a view for a bit. The danger with another big surveillance op is that they do what they did with me: Massive go slows in the afternoons, huge positive splits, skipping the Nucalm break, refusing to run in the rain etc.
Anyway, the longer they keep that sign on the van and the longer Nucalm plaster him as fastest Englishman on their site, the stupider they look.
I'll do more on this because someone somewhere's messed up real bad.
These are his 8k splits yesterday - totally abnormal patterns, never seen in history, nowhere close. The 52 alone is world-class and then he slams down a 45 right after.
62 63 64 60 66 63 59 58 52 45 74
And this is how a world-class, totally pure piece of multidaying is constructed. [Lawson day 6 Jogle]. Witness the battle... the rhythm... and the natural fade of the thing.
I'll find out what % of 5s Goodge was doing before this, and his best streaks of 5s. This is one of the biggest smoking guns so far. What a foul-up.
I don't think I understand what this represents? One person averaged 55 for 136 Ks. In turn, it means it is impossible for the other to average 60 for 88 Ks?
I don't know anything about Jogle. Is that done on a paved surface?
the first list is 8k splits for WG denoting a very sharp 52 mins then a never before seen 45 straight after. The second list is the Jogle world record holder, and his 8k splits of a day. They just show how a run, any run, normally works. The best he can find is a 50 for a race a quarter the length and the runner is one of the best multidayers in the world. Jogle is the UK equiv of transcon.
oh sure. 9 minute miling in a multiday for any period of time, well into the race, esp in the 2nd half of the day is all but unheard of. And 8k in a row all a 5min Ks with a 4 tossed in is stratospheric and could well be unique.
The problem that has plagued my mission to get the fake Jogle removed and now to point out how quick WG runs in the 2nd half of days is that people think multiday running is easy and say: "9 min miling - well, I could do that." It's the whole of approach of 'you never know' and people like to wave this sort of thing through.
But a good devil's advocate approach is to ask people to find a precedent for Goodge's 45 for 5 miles yesterday. People say the reason he is faster than the top runners is that he goes less far. But it doesn't work like that. The reason he goes less far is that he's far less able and thus should not be able to run so much quicker than the top runners.
oh sure. 9 minute miling in a multiday for any period of time, well into the race, esp in the 2nd half of the day is all but unheard of. And 8k in a row all a 5min Ks with a 4 tossed in is stratospheric and could well be unique.
The problem that has plagued my mission to get the fake Jogle removed and now to point out how quick WG runs in the 2nd half of days is that people think multiday running is easy and say: "9 min miling - well, I could do that." It's the whole of approach of 'you never know' and people like to wave this sort of thing through.
But a good devil's advocate approach is to ask people to find a precedent for Goodge's 45 for 5 miles yesterday. People say the reason he is faster than the top runners is that he goes less far. But it doesn't work like that. The reason he goes less far is that he's far less able and thus should not be able to run so much quicker than the top runners.
We’re sorry you’ve had to go through this Will. Especially after all the years you’ve served as the governing administrator of transcon globally. These are supposed to be the golden years for you where you get enjoy the runs your governing, do your poetry, gardening, etc. It’s supposed to be a happy closing period, after the incomprehensible acts of the UK’s RY and DR. It’s pretty unfair that you have to see what’s transpiring here again, with it being the 3rd individual from the UK in recent years. We appreciate your courage in speaking up when it wasn’t convenient or fashionable for you and UK Athletics . If it wasn’t for you, this would never have been exposed. We thank you Will.
Seriously? You might want to check the last day of the 1929 transcon race, Salo and Gavuzzi running 30 miles at 7:35 and 7:59 pace (3:18 and 3:29 marathons) in front of 10,000 people.
It might be wise to tone down the hyperbole, Will. You say no multiday athlete in history has negative splitted so much, and a bunch of multiday runners say ‘I often negative split’. You say 9 minute mileing is all but unheard of this far into a multiday. And immediately someone comes up with a couple of guys doing sub 8s at the end of a transcon. The more you make out you know how every multiday runner in history has run, the less it looks like you truly know.
What’s our next move here Will? Are you willing to fly back out here, but this time we have a few LetsRun folks go with you. You folks have to track him for 5 straight days, 24 hours per day with video camera. That’s the only way. If you this doesn’t happen this may haunt you and the Jogle folks for life.
We can setup a GoFund me to pay for your tickets, car rental, etc. Let us know.
It's plainly obvious you are one of Will Cockerell's troll accounts. No one sane would keep kissing up to him so bad every single post.
Actually, it's plainly obvious that BoogerJohnson is not a troll account of Will C. It's a completely different style of writing, and nobody in the UK ever uses the term 'Booger'.
I half suspect that Booger Johnson is a troll account of the Goodge camp created just to make their detractors look daft! 😄
That 1929 transcon is clearly a very manufactured example and nothing like what I'm talking about. I want to see people in the last 40 years, on their own, in multiday events firing off 45 minutes for 5 miles, preferably not on day 1!
Give me examples of people who regularly negative split in competitive multidays both in the days and the events themselves, and don't include people who can barely walk in the morning and do 10 miles and 15 in the afternoon. I'm looking for those who do 30 miles in 6 and then 30 in 5:45, stuff like that. Who is doing that? Tell me.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
oh sure. 9 minute miling in a multiday for any period of time, well into the race, esp in the 2nd half of the day is all but unheard of. And 8k in a row all a 5min Ks with a 4 tossed in is stratospheric and could well be unique.
Ok so didn't take long to find. PK's transcon, checked a random week (this was his 5th week into it). Heres a few examples where he was throwing down 9 - 9:30min miles (similar to WGs 9-9:40s at the end of day 41) on the second half of the day:
11th October 2016: If fact this second session of the day he only had 4 miles where he ran slower than a 10min mile. 74mile day
15th October 2016: Again, second half of the day session having already run 42.5miles. Great section from mile 12 to mile 23 (54 to 65 for the day) where he was in the low 9min/miles for the whole 12 miles.
16th October 2016: Second half of the day with 41miles already in the legs. whole session consistent in the 9s. His 5mile (8k) splits here are: 47, 49, 50, 48, 46, 47. This alone is so much faster than WG's 5mile splits which you posted, which had one split under 50 and the remainder hovering around the 60s
I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but its the way its presented with bold unverified statements which doesn't do your case any favours. Statements like 'never seen in history', 'best piece of multiday running of all time'. Clearly it has been seen before but is usually in the elites. If it was worded more like 'these kind of paces are normally only seen in elites at the top of their game' rather than 'never seen in history' would give better weight to your argument.
You've conveniently ignored the 45. PK is a vastly superior athlete absolutely belting it to his 42 day tally, and you've flagged a 47 49 50 48 46 and 47. Where's the 45? And where's the 55455555 for the stretch that WG is asking us to believe?
You state that PK tally of 8ks is much quicker than WGs and that's precisely my point. PK hovers in the late 40s and WG in the late 50s but then slams in a 45!
Who goes from running 57-67 mins for an 8k stretch for weeks and then suddenly does a 52 and then 45? Back to back. Not even close to believable. It would be like PK going from 49s to a 42 then a 35 just out of the blue. And no footage of it and no mention in dispatches.
It's a feature of WGs and RBs stats that they often go bionic toward the end of days and what triggered me going out there 3 weeks ago. I only found someone positive-splitting by an hour in he second half of days [first day was a 70 min positive] and barely able to run at all in the afternoons.
If you really want me to revise the 45 to "unbelievably rare" I will, but more importantly it is a pattern of increasing your pace by around 33% from the norm that is totally unseen, especially late on in a contest. It's like someone 8 minute miling in the marathon chucking in a couple 5:30s for 21 & 22, and we're supposed to say: 'fine'.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
As predicted, this Transcon gets easier and easier. Yesterday 61 miles. 12:13 pace. Average HR of 100. Pretty soon he will be doing 70 miles per day with double digit heart rate. As I sit here typing this post, Will's avg. HR is only 13 beats faster than mine.
I only found someone positive-splitting by an hour in he second half of days [first day was a 70 min positive] and barely able to run at all in the afternoons.
So you think he’s doing what in the afternoon, having somebody else run for him? Getting a lift (doesn’t the garmin data show somebody running with the same high cadence as Will at those times)?
The case you present, whilst compelling (especially given his performances now vs when you were there), needs to offer something concrete. So far we have a small amount of evidence (day 26) showing the low heart rates during a supervised period, and another let’s runner who was with him running when he was logging some of these questionable miles / HRs again.
I’d love to know why that’s happening, and perhaps there is misdirection going on, but so far it’s all circumstantial.
If you remove your point of view (opinion) that he had nothing more to give when you were there, is it not possible that he has indeed been finding it easy to this point (hence the negative splits and resetting of goals)?
Is there any plausibility to the idea that the sheer level of support (including shoes, massages, sleep (placebo effect of NuCalm, at a minimum), nutrition (6000+ calories per day, great macronutrients), possible ‘special supplements’, relative lack of training volume last year (2,000 miles) and subsequent training effect of his trans con etc, and maybe even comparative muscle size vs other elites, is benefitting him in a way which shifts the paradigm a bit?
As predicted, this Transcon gets easier and easier. Yesterday 61 miles. 12:13 pace. Average HR of 100. Pretty soon he will be doing 70 miles per day with double digit heart rate. As I sit here typing this post, Will's avg. HR is only 13 beats faster than mine.
I need some NuCalm stat!
This performance enhancer is for runners what viagra was for the retirement community.
The weirdest part about the HR to me is that it’s clearly wrong, and going wrong is such a timely way, yet his / his team’s reaction is complete indifference. If it is just some wild quirk, then why not address it?
