USATF Coaches Education Meltdown

Mike, I thought you did a great job presenting the material (especially the table top demo). It kept my attention. I wasn't trying to be rude or disrespectful. And I hope you don't think I am disrespecting race walkers. Maybe ridiculous was a harsh term. I just don't see it in the same light as other endurance disciplines (kind of how some on this site look at ultra runners). I definitely am not trying to stop anyone from doing/coaching the sport. Sorry if I offended.

MSCoach wrote:

I definitely am not trying to stop anyone from doing/coaching the sport. Sorry if I offended.

It is all good. Thanks for the follow up. I don't get so offended as I used to but I do feel I should defend when possible in a reasonable and articulate way. I am not sure that that always comes across but that is the intention.

As for "Class of 75" and all your doubts maybe you should really talk to some people first.

As an athlete these were the people that advised and participated in our training group. One that you probably never heard of but I will tell you about anyways.

Our coach Mike DeWitt. Never went to a level 2 but contributed to the racewalking portion of the curriculum.

Physiologist that actively advised our training group which consisted of my wife Michelle, 3 time Olympian and one of the high placing endurance athletes for the women 92-00. Jenny Crain, myself, Therron Kissinger and peripherally some top junior and 4-5 other OT participants.

Who advised our group with intense discussion? Joe Vigil for one, Dr. David Martin was heavily involved, Dr. Robert Chapman for another. They advised us about heat acclimatization, high-low training, threshold training and a host of other areas. We were doing things like heat acclimatization training periods and hi-low training years before most of the running community even heard of these ideas. I maybe a Division 2 coach and you can try to dismiss my racewalking experience but Dr. martin, Dr Chapman and coach Vighil wouldn't.I know they matter way more then you do. I'll stand by what I believe. These are valuable and I would venture to guess that even those elite coaches you talked about would learn something if they went.

Further, I'll make the assertion that once you think you know everything then you have failed to continue to grow as a person. Even now I am taking a college class to try to learn something new. It is all about personal growth and I will be willing to bet that those guys you talk about are still learning and searching in some way. Otherwise they would not be the great coaches they are.

Well, that is probably enough from me now. Lunch is almost over and I have to put together van schedules for the conference meet, answer questions from parents, get class excuse forms signed, get the check for meals and hotels and a whole host of things coaches do that no one ever talks about. No Admin Asst or travel Asst at a D2. And I still love this job.

Mike

Are you serious Class of 75? If you are, how about considering Dr. Robert Vaughan the personal coach of Francie Larrieu Smith for 22 years, a 5 time Olympian and bronze medalist. He is not only a Level 2 and 3 graduate he is a prominent instructor in the USATF CE program. When you make a list of the most elite U.S. coaches in endurance, be very careful and check past Olympic results. There you will see Vaughan, Vigil and Larson. All 3 are instructors in the CE program in one way or another.

I took the LII at Colorado Springs back in 1989 when USATF was still TAC (still own the T-shirt ;)) It was the single most valuable seven days of my professional career. Bob Myers and Rocky Light provided so much information on the jumps it was impossible to digest all of it as once, and I still refer to that thick notebook we left the training facility with. I sat in a dorm room with Joe Vigil for 45 of the most valuable minutes I have ever spent; the man is a motivational machine. ANY ONE on here speaking poorly of this program has a closed mind and poor insight.

It is discouraging that this program may be compromised. What is even more discouraging that no matter what you call it ... AAU ... TAC .... USATF .... the mucky mucks don't seem to give a damn about anything other than themselves.

Add Al Schmidt, Fred Wilt, Shane Patrick, Lauren Seagrove and Craig Poole to other Olympic athletes coaches that have either taken or taught the course. And that is just off the top of my head.

Amy Deam, Boo Shexnayder, Bill Goodina, Gary Winkler, they all have had Olympians and are instructors, or I should say, were.

Not to worry, Class of 75. A little Prozac and some anger management therapy will help you with your negative outlook. Life really is good. Take Care.... we love you

Seagrave.....I'll leave my comments to myself.

Fred Wilt did wonderful work....decades ago. It's a different system now.

Schmidt ruined one of the best distance talents to come out of NCAAs...

I'm not saying there aren't some good instructors or good people haven't come out of the system.

I'm just pointing out that (if you noticed I said DISTANCE) it seems like many of the best college or pro distance coaches have not come out of the system.

I'd argue that the distance curriculum is far behind the jumps and throws for sure, and probably the sprints, but i'd have to look back at the sprint stuff.

Some Coach wrote:

I took the LII at Colorado Springs back in 1989 when USATF was still TAC (still own the T-shirt ;)) It was the single most valuable seven days of my professional career. Bob Myers and Rocky Light provided so much information on the jumps it was impossible to digest all of it as once, and I still refer to that thick notebook we left the training facility with. I sat in a dorm room with Joe Vigil for 45 of the most valuable minutes I have ever spent; the man is a motivational machine. ANY ONE on here speaking poorly of this program has a closed mind and poor insight.

It is discouraging that this program may be compromised. What is even more discouraging that no matter what you call it ... AAU ... TAC .... USATF .... the mucky mucks don't seem to give a damn about anything other than themselves.

Totally agree with this. Is there any way we can vote out Terry Crawford or is her position appointed? Coaching education was one of the only areas in USATF where the people involved actually cared more about the sport than there own professional or financial advancement.

I honestly don't have the answer so help me out. Which of these have gone through the USATF system? Not as instructors but as students.

Last years marathon list.

USA Men

2:09:15 a ( 1) Mebrahtom Keflezighi LARSEN

2:09:40 a ( 3) Ryan Hall MAHON

2:10:00 (11) Dathan Ritzenhein HUDSON

2:12:09 ( 1) Jason Hartmann JONES

2:13:00 a ( 7) Jorge Torres JONES

2:13:46 a ( 8) Nicholas Arciniaga HANSON

2:13:51 a ( 2) Josh Cox LARSEN

2:14:00 a ( 9) Abdihakim Abdirahman LI

2:14:39 a (10) Jason Lehmkuhle BARKER

2:15:13 a ( 1) Christopher Raabe ????

2:15:22 a (12) Peter Gilmore DANIELS

2:15:27 a ( 4) Michael Morgan HANSON

USA Women

2:27:48 (10) Kara Goucher SALAZAR

2:27:53 (11) Desiree Davila HANSON

2:28:50 ( 6) Deena Kastor MAHON

2:31:49 ( 1) Ilsa Paulson SELF COACHED

2:32:17 a ( 6) Magdalena Lewy DANIELS

2:32:37 ( 2) Colleen deReuck DEREUCK

2:32:55 ( 8) Melissa White HANSON

2:32:59 ( 9) Tera Moody HUDSON

2:34:48 (13) Kate O'Neill MAHON

2:35:02 ( 1) Heidy Westover SELF COACHED

2:35:06 ( 3) Kristen Nicolini BARKER

2:35:09 ( 4) Nicole Blaesser SELF COACHED

This was the top dozen men and women marathoners. These are the coaches that coached more than 1 athlete on this list. How many have been through the program?

HANSON--4

MAHON--3

DANIELS--2

BARKER--2

JONES--2

LARSEN--2

justwonderingwhy wrote:

Schmidt ruined one of the best distance talents to come out of NCAAs...

Back from practice....

You have no real knowledge of that situation and it is wrong for yo to comment like this.

People like yourself who say these kinds of things anonymously are cowards. And rude.

As for all those guys who coach marathoners and have not gone through Level 2 then good for them. No one here said that the program was essential to success. I had plenty of runners improve dramatically and do well before I took level two. But it serves the track and field community as a whole and it is a great service. Don't be so damn myopic.

Mike

Really, the negativity on letsrun is discouraging. At no time has anyone claimed that the USATF Coaching Education program is the only route one can take to become an excellent coach. A couple of folks were disatisfied with what was presented in the distance section, and this should merit the whole program being questioned? The narcisism on this board can be exhausting. If you polled every coach who became Level II certified I guarantee the overwhelming majority would feel the experience benefited them greatly. And for few who had negative comments, I bet that type of attitude was personality pervasive.

Mike Rohl wrote:

As for all those guys who coach marathoners and have not gone through Level 2 then good for them. No one here said that the program was essential to success. Mike

Do I need to do the same thing for the 10k and 5k or can we all agree that the coaches that are having the greatest amount of success with distance runners in the US are not involved in these programs? Perhaps our high school and college coaches should try to find out where the knowledge is being aquired from our coaches at the elite level?

I am shocked that Hanson's take so much crap on this board. Without Sell or Verran on that list last year they still had more than anyone else.

USA USA USA wrote:

Mike Rohl wrote:

As for all those guys who coach marathoners and have not gone through Level 2 then good for them. No one here said that the program was essential to success. Mike

Do I need to do the same thing for the 10k and 5k or can we all agree that the coaches that are having the greatest amount of success with distance runners in the US are not involved in these programs? Perhaps our high school and college coaches should try to find out where the knowledge is being acquired from our coaches at the elite level?

No because your evidence does not support your point. You are saying the program is not any good because these people are not in involved. The program can still be good whether they are involved or not. There are also coaches who have Olympians have gone through the program. Further having Olympians is not the only measure of quality coaching.

. You are saying the program is not any good because these people are not in involved.

No, he's simply saying that our best coaches did NOT learn from USATF. So, why don't we try and figure out where the best coaches learned from instead.

Put another way,

If almost all of our best coaches are learning from somewhere else, can the system really be that wonderful?

USA USA USA wrote:

Mike Rohl wrote:

As for all those guys who coach marathoners and have not gone through Level 2 then good for them. No one here said that the program was essential to success. Mike

Do I need to do the same thing for the 10k and 5k or can we all agree that the coaches that are having the greatest amount of success with distance runners in the US are not involved in these programs? Perhaps our high school and college coaches should try to find out where the knowledge is being aquired from our coaches at the elite level?

It's not all about advancement and being educated on the level of an elite coach. Level II is not just about educating elite level coaches. Everyone of those coaches on your marathon (and potential 5k and 10k lists) were given athletes that were educated by a "lesser coach. Yes, the top notch coaches may not go through the program but every one of the athletes on the list had middle school, high school, and college coaches. I don't have to know what Salazer knows to do my job. But the Salazer's of our world owe a debt to their athlete's previous coaches. If all we had were a bunch of elite coaches then who would find/coach the guys, or for that matter the kids, that don't get the immediate elite coaching?

Every one of the athlete's coaches you listed were preceded by at least 3 coaches and I'd bet my USATF dues (for what that's worth) that they are quite glad that their coaches handled them correctly. It's about so much more than the end result. It's having consistent, correct, and appropriate coaching from middle school through post collegiate is key.

Maybe our fascination with elite coaches is creating a top heavy coaching hierarchy and is failing to address the real need: discovering and nurturing talents while keeping them away from the soccer pitch, basketball court, etc. in middle and high school. It's easy to polish off a near finished product.

It is time to find another method for intelligent and productive criticism and discussion about Track and Field. Unfortunately, there are a few rude and insecure posters who tend to stink up what could have been a great forum. I assume there are under the age of 25? Those of you out there who are sane, hardworking, professionals-I thank you for your respectful posts. Let's Run has become absurd..Let the kids have it. Go home and pick up your room or I will take your computer away.

Ok...beam me up Scottie....