I'm highly suspicious of Narve Nordås

Sorry your post is convoluted at best - I really don't understand the points you are trying to make. You "could erase everything you wrote above" but at the same time could "rip apart your (my) reasoning" - dude, are you okay?

If you are so clever - then go ahead, try and "rip it apart" - I'll happily get into a "discussion" on middle distance running with you, try your luck.

But some feedback? Right now your catalogue of posts are coming across as unhinged babble - seriously, I tried to read this like 3 times out of respect and I have no idea what you are saying.

Man, you really don’t like criticism -not even when I say you may be right (but also wrong when we take in account alternatives you don’t raise). But I think I made it clear that I also can be wrong here (if not good enough I stress this now).

My point is that progression, IMO, is really difficult to judge, since we need so much information and details we never can get…

Don’t make this an issue about authority, or defending or challenging authority -it’s only sport, and nobody here is that knowledgeable. -All these things are complicated, even for researchers, athletes and coaches. That’s some of the reasons why we have debate on this forum…

The “rip it apart thing” was followed by an explanation of what I meant, namely Nordås’ expected 5000m progression compared to Katir’s 1500m progression. If you wanted to discuss that you could just have done so in your answer…

It’s your right to feel offended, and to criticise in return. -I’m not perfect, and there can certainly be things to criticise and point to in my posts. I think also the fact that people are different and view things differently is necessary for an interesting debate. But you are getting really defensive really fast, and not only on me (I think you know there are earlier episodes that could be mentioned) -It’s like you don’t understand that criticism of your views isn’t criticism or attacks on you as a person. And it’s like you don’t see that I started the post with quite a few nice words. And how can’t you see that my criticism isn’t personal -nearly everything I wrote could have been a criticism of other posters, even of things I myself may have written some time ago. -I evolve, and try out new perspectives…

The problem with your “defence” / criticism in return is that it is so total, strong and extreme: Everything I write is only babble, not only in this post but in every post. -It’s like I would have said that you in every post get defensive and aggressive. But that wouldn’t be true at all. But you sure get easier “rabid” than most, and frankly this must be a problem for not only people you debate with, but also for you… But no offence from my side -I’m pretty thick skinned, and will keep on answering every post I find answerable… But you can of course block me if I annoy you.

Adam Fogg also made the breakthrough in transitioning from the 5000 and 10000m to the 1500/mile with a 3:49.

Hocker was injured in 2022 and part of 2023. He still came back to pr last year and this year was able to slam the door in the 1500m in a way he couldn't do since 2021 and he looks like he is a world contender, so don't look to doping for an answer to everything sight unseen.

False. He raced the 5000/10000 for points in college (on time). He has long been a 1500 guy, and that’s what most of his races and his postseason races were.

What 1500m guy races 5000 and 10000m "for points" in college? They didn't realize he was a 1500m guy and he says it himself in the interview that was posted here after his breakthrough this season.

He ran it once at his small school conference meet. At NCAAs and post-collegiate, and in most of his races he did 1500-3K. I can’t discern if you are trolling?

Everyone would suggest that given the outperformance of the double thresholds at 1500m versus 5k/10k over the past half a decade…

Now personally I think it more they have their race specific phase dialed in more than their base but we have almost no info on what they are doing.

There is also sort of the question how big of difference is a half dozen seconds. How many guys have we seen with that one monster year they struggle to replicate and get everything to line up again? Nordas is impressive cause he is doing it at the top level. Any 3:40 guy running 3:35 basically gets ignored these days.

Is it an outperformance or that your sample size is the Inge family who want to race the 1500, first and foremost? Now that it is being adopted more and more, we are seeing athletes like Heymans, Almgren etc who are doing best at 5K. But no I’d disagree with you overall. To say all 13:05-13:20 guys doing double Ts should be looked at as potential 3:29 guys seems backwards. It’s a strength/aerobic-based system first and foremost.

I know this is off topic... but any chance you know where to find this interview? I remember it. And went looking for it recently but couldn't find it anywhere.

I don't know if Gjert ever revealed what he changed about Jakob's training after his plateau in 2019 but I've always wanted to know! And I can't believe no reporter has ever asked Jakob about it.

They won't let me post the link so here's the thread number.
11018031

It's because the norwegian federation is ruled by...m...m...m...mannsgriser!

Maybe it's because Nordas is trained by one of the very best coaches to ever train 1500.

He's already coached one of the best ever despite that runner having mediocre speed. Quite literally, that athlete would have never accomplished anything close without this great coach. That he can do it again with another "slow" athlete speaks well to this point.

And of those 13:155k runner who have been doing thresholds for years, how many made the big step up in their mid 20s and dropped that 26:45? It isn’t a realistic outcome. Neither is 3:29 but building a big base and focusing on speed is path that you would expect to lead to improvement unlike doing the same thing and expecting something else.

personally put me in that gjert is giving him the good stuff now camp. Maybe it is just some borderline stuff(bicarbonates work better for 60-249s efforts) or straight up doping. With some small chance we are talking just minor tweaks letting him take that step forward.

But man how many 20 year old 3:50/8:15/14:08 guys are running 3:29/7:41/13:05 4 years later…

There weren't many diminishing returns when he improved 11 secs. That's like a rocket taking off.

The point is that as you reach closer to your maximum potential improvement will plateau. That's exactly what has happened. Hocker may or may not be doping (I think most sub 3:30 runners are for the matter) but his argument is intellectually infantile.

A 20 year old improving a lot is a bit different especially with the whacky missing Covid year and shoe improvements. And supposedly he was way undertrained in HS. Make the list of national class US milers who in their mid 20s dropped 5s off their 1500m time. It is pretty short..

11s sounds like a lot but I had 3 hs team mates improve that much in college when they upped the mileage from 45 to 70. But no one cares when you go from 4:32 to 4:15😂

I found the interview: You have to download the NRK radio app, then search for “I det lange løp» (pod cast). The interview is named «Gjert Ingebrigtsen», and is from Dec 10 2021, and is in Norwegian (no problem for you I guess). The interview with Gjert starts at 45 min, and from about 1 hour 21 minutes he starts talking about the things I have mentioned. -It’s about the stagnation that happened in 2019, and that they had to change the content in the training significantly.

You ask for what these changes were? Well, so did the journalist (Jann Post), but Gjert won’t give away anything -he is so vague here that the journalist starts laughing..!