I think Jeff says its not him and he has been testostered multiple times 🙄
I have another question though: Why would you want to run a trail with 10,000 of your closest friends? Personally, I like to trail run to get out in nature.
If so I do remember you being quite vocal about *not* wanting PED testing for top ranked runners in a certain email thread. Now why would that be?
Dopers are like course cutters. They are cheaters that don't follow the rules and they are living a lie.
Again, not me. I did NOT post that. And for the record, the email thread you mentioned was because I knew an athlete that tested positive for a trace banned substance years ago and spent 2 years tracing it back to a cross-contaminated BCAA (from production line, this was before the clean certified labeling). I was cautioning everyone that we needed to make sure we had solid checks and balances in place for testing so something like that did not happen. I am for testing and have been tested multiple times over the years at both UTMB and Western States. I do not use PEDs and never have. -Jeff Browning
Jeff whatever kind of "test" you had at UTMB was probably not a PED kind of WADA approved test.
They usually save those for the top 10 at that race and only in more recent years.
I listened to an interview with the guy from Whistler, Gary Robbins. It sounds like he lost his place to accompany that does everesting, not UTMB. UTMB saw that he lost his race and swooped in. I really don't see any problem with that.
There is no reason he can't hold a race at a different time of year and let the public choose. Race the UTMB race or the small locally run race.
There are cities that hold multiple races every year and there's no reason this mountain in Western Canada can't be one of them.
I think Jeff says its not him and he has been testostered multiple times 🙄
I have another question though: Why would you want to run a trail with 10,000 of your closest friends? Personally, I like to trail run to get out in nature.
The trails are full of totes unique trail runners who just want to vibe with nature though
I listened to an interview with the guy from Whistler, Gary Robbins. It sounds like he lost his place to accompany that does everesting, not UTMB. UTMB saw that he lost his race and swooped in. I really don't see any problem with that.
Oh really! Doesn’t UTMB have a long record of aggressively taking over races!
If you don’t see the problem you are seeing what you want to see.
I listened to an interview with the guy from Whistler, Gary Robbins. It sounds like he lost his place to accompany that does everesting, not UTMB. UTMB saw that he lost his race and swooped in. I really don't see any problem with that.
There is no reason he can't hold a race at a different time of year and let the public choose. Race the UTMB race or the small locally run race.
There are cities that hold multiple races every year and there's no reason this mountain in Western Canada can't be one of them.
The weather window for these kind of races are 2-3 month max.
I listened to an interview with the guy from Whistler, Gary Robbins. It sounds like he lost his place to accompany that does everesting, not UTMB. UTMB saw that he lost his race and swooped in. I really don't see any problem with that.
Additionally see:
garyrobbinsrun.com What Really Went Down in Whistler with the WAM Races Oct 26 2023
I listened to an interview with the guy from Whistler, Gary Robbins. It sounds like he lost his place to accompany that does everesting, not UTMB. UTMB saw that he lost his race and swooped in. I really don't see any problem with that.
There is no reason he can't hold a race at a different time of year and let the public choose. Race the UTMB race or the small locally run race.
There are cities that hold multiple races every year and there's no reason this mountain in Western Canada can't be one of them.
The weather window for these kind of races are 2-3 month max.
False. They do 200 mile races in the middle of winter in Northern Minnesota. No reason you can't race the mountains year round.
Again, not me. I did NOT post that. And for the record, the email thread you mentioned was because I knew an athlete that tested positive for a trace banned substance years ago and spent 2 years tracing it back to a cross-contaminated BCAA (from production line, this was before the clean certified labeling). I was cautioning everyone that we needed to make sure we had solid checks and balances in place for testing so something like that did not happen. I am for testing and have been tested multiple times over the years at both UTMB and Western States. I do not use PEDs and never have. -Jeff Browning
Jeff whatever kind of "test" you had at UTMB was probably not a PED kind of WADA approved test.
They usually save those for the top 10 at that race and only in more recent years.
This is something that you wrote in that email, Jeff:
"For the record, I don't think we have an issue of cheaters in our sport..."
-Jeff Browning 2019
[followed by paragraphs and paragraphs of why we shouldn't have PED testing in ultrarunning because of risk of 'false positives']
Again, not me. I did NOT post that. And for the record, the email thread you mentioned was because I knew an athlete that tested positive for a trace banned substance years ago and spent 2 years tracing it back to a cross-contaminated BCAA (from production line, this was before the clean certified labeling). I was cautioning everyone that we needed to make sure we had solid checks and balances in place for testing so something like that did not happen. I am for testing and have been tested multiple times over the years at both UTMB and Western States. I do not use PEDs and never have. -Jeff Browning
Jeff whatever kind of "test" you had at UTMB was probably not a PED kind of WADA approved test.
They usually save those for the top 10 at that race and only in more recent years.
Yeah, I think you're right on the UTMB test I had. I have been tested 3x in Top 10 at Western States ('17-'19). That's a USADA test. And the email thread was kind of a think-tank between athletes: Who would pay for it, protocols, etc. I added to that conversation that I had known two athletes over the years that were cleared later (one in ultras, one in tris), but had initial false positives for a trace banned substance that was actually traced to a BCAA supplement that was cross-contaminated (can be on factory lines with pharmaceuticals I've heard). However, in ultras, USADA/WADA have done good job educating past 5 years (in ultras at least) with information on supplement cross-contamination potential (like BCAAs, etc.). That's the biggest risk, not being educated on certain supplements. It's a long list an athlete needs to know and avoid. Since it was knew to ultras (first States year of testing was 2017). It was all knew to us as US athletes. I still don't think there is much cheating in the US (at least I hope there isn't!!). Europe...well, don't know. Different culture there, more money it it. More pros, more competitive, less races. More incentive I suppose. I don't want to see this cool sport change, but the fact that it's a possibility with sponsorship money and some cash purses, it's something we should think about. I do think we should have some testing protocols in place. Hate to see the sport corrupt like cycling. -Jeff B
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Jeff whatever kind of "test" you had at UTMB was probably not a PED kind of WADA approved test.
They usually save those for the top 10 at that race and only in more recent years.
This is something that you wrote in that email, Jeff:
"For the record, I don't think we have an issue of cheaters in our sport..."
-Jeff Browning 2019
[followed by paragraphs and paragraphs of why we shouldn't have PED testing in ultrarunning because of risk of 'false positives']
Said this previously, I don't think we have an issue in the US. There is not enough money in it still. The email, for context, was a discussion between athletes in ultrarunning about potential testing. Here's more context if that helps....
"...I have been tested 3x in Top 10 at Western States ('17-'19). That's a USADA test. And the email thread was kind of a think-tank between athletes: Who would pay for it, protocols, etc. I added to that conversation that I had known two athletes over the years (may not of been that specific in the email thread) that were cleared later (one in ultras, one in tris), but had initial false positives for a trace banned substance that was actually traced to a BCAA supplement that was cross-contaminated (can be on factory lines with pharmaceuticals I've heard). However, in ultras, USADA/WADA have done good job educating past 5 years (in ultras at least) with information on supplement cross-contamination potential (like BCAAs, etc.). That's the biggest risk, not being educated on certain supplements. It's a long list an athlete needs to know and avoid. Since it was knew to ultras (first States year of testing was 2017). It was all knew to us as US athletes. I still don't think there is much cheating in the US (at least I hope there isn't!!). Europe...well, don't know. Different culture there, more money it it. More pros, more competitive, less races. More incentive I suppose. I don't want to see this cool sport change, but the fact that it's a possibility with sponsorship money and some cash purses, it's something we should think about. I do think we should have some testing protocols in place. Hate to see the sport corrupt like cycling..."
I think Jeff says its not him and he has been testostered multiple times 🙄
I have another question though: Why would you want to run a trail with 10,000 of your closest friends? Personally, I like to trail run to get out in nature.
You're quite right on the crowds during the race. Cool to finish in that atmosphere in Chamonix, but it is a conga line on singletrack.
I think Jeff says its not him and he has been testostered multiple times 🙄
I have another question though: Why would you want to run a trail with 10,000 of your closest friends? Personally, I like to trail run to get out in nature.
You're quite right on the crowds during the race. Cool to finish in that atmosphere in Chamonix, but it is a conga line on singletrack.
And I apologize if my initial response was somewhat aggro! I had just worked my butt off running hard at Coldwater 100 that day and heard about this thread attacking my reputation at the finish line (and that I should probably read it). With so much personal dedication and hard work toward longevity and clean living for past 20 years, it really rubbed me the wrong way obviously. Hard not to get defensive and claws come out. I've slept a full night now and I'm calmer. :) And, for the record (in 2024): I am 100% for testing athletes, I do think our little sport is becoming a bigger sport quickly and we need to keep cheaters out. Giddyup! -Jeff Browning
The weather window for these kind of races are 2-3 month max.
False. They do 200 mile races in the middle of winter in Northern Minnesota. No reason you can't race the mountains year round.
I think the window is more like 3-5 months, but that said, to compare a winter race in Minnesota to a winter race in the Alps, Rockies, or Sierras is absurd.
An email from well-known ultra athlete Kilian Jornet, which is co-signed by ultra athlete Zach Miller, to over one hundred of the worlds' top mountain runners has been leaked on Instagram by British coach Martin Cox (@VO2maxCoaching). The letter is asking athletes to boycott UTMB and attend a 'different race'. No context is given for the planned boycott but they are clearly unhappy with UTMB for some reason.
Any precedents for this in any other branch of distance running?
The email is reproduced in it's entirety below:
Hey,
Kilian Jornet and Zach Miller here. If you are receiving this it is because you are one of the top athletes in our sport. We wanted to start with this select few so that our efforts can be a bit more focused and not so overwhelming. Having said that, what is this all about?
Well, we are writing to you to see if you might be interested in committing to racing each other at a race other than UTMB this year (2024). While we realize that many of you may have strong ties to UTMB (personal goals, incentives from sponsors, career goals, etc.) we ask that you hear us out on what we have to say here. First off, we want to acknowledge that UTMB is a great race, even though there has been a lot of drama recently, we still feel that the race and the organization have done a lot of good for the sport of ultra running.
Thanks to UTMB, we now have a world championship-esque event that draws many of the best runners in the sport as well as sponsors, media, and fans from all over the world. It has truly become the big event of the year and has really helped to put our sport on the map. Having an event like this has created a lot of opportunity for people like ourselves, as it drives a lot of money and attention to the sport. This, we feel, is a good thing.
However, while it may be good for the sport to grow and develop in these ways, it is also important that the growth occurs in a positive, healthy manner. Unfortunately, the current direction that UTMB, UTMB Group, and Ironman have taken has given us cause for concern. There are a multitude of things that we could point to that are concerning to us, but the gist of it is that we feel that they are not managing themselves and their event(s) in a way that has the best interest of the sport and its people in mind.
We understand that the racing space is a business and we are alright with the organization making money. However, we feel that there is a way to do this without treating people poorly and running over everyone who gets in your way. To put it simply, we want them to run their business well. We want them to be considerate. We want them to not only ask "what can we do to benefit ourselves?", but also "what can we do to improve the sport of trail running as a whole?". Unfortunately, we feel that they have not been doing a very good job with this. And while it would be nice to be able to sit down and chat with them so that we can course correct and get things back on track, we fear that they won't really make any changes unless they feel pressured to do so. Fortunately, as elite athletes we have a voice.
Perhaps the best way to communicate our discontent and apply some pressure is to band together and all go to a different race. An absence of the top fifteen ranked male and female runners from the UTMB start line would speak volumes. It would communicate to them that we are not happy and pressure them to make some changes.
So, we would like to hear your thoughts. We have already pin-pointed a potential race that we could attend instead of UTMB, but before we get into all that, please let us know what you think. Do you have the same or similar concerns? Are you interested in competing in an alternative race? Please let us know so that we can continue the dialogue and discuss what the next steps might be. And please realize, this is not meant to be a malicious, hateful thing towards UTMB. The idea here is to find a way to apply some pressure to the UTMB/Ironman organization so that we can effect positive change. It would be great if one day we could go to UTMB and feel good about it, knowing that what they are doing is making the sport better, not worse.
Anyhow, please let us know your thoughts. You can answer at
Perhaps we can also organize a zoom call so that anyone who is interested can discuss these things verbally.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read!
Many thanks,
Kilian Jornet and Zach Miller.
We want them to not only ask "what can we do to benefit ourselves?", but also "what can we do to improve the sport of trail running as a whole?".
Et tu, Kilian? Who benefits from the AUD $190 shorts you sell on NNormal? Or the $300 shoes..? The $70 hat..?
And lovely little Zach. Getting paid by that little family operated globocorp subsidiary The North Face (globocorp who just laid off 500 staff). FYI Zach Summit Vectiv Pro’s were retailing for the beneficial price of AUD $420
All that overpriced gear is really doing a great job of improving the sport.
You're quite right on the crowds during the race. Cool to finish in that atmosphere in Chamonix, but it is a conga line on singletrack.
And I apologize if my initial response was somewhat aggro! I had just worked my butt off running hard at Coldwater 100 that day and heard about this thread attacking my reputation at the finish line (and that I should probably read it). With so much personal dedication and hard work toward longevity and clean living for past 20 years, it really rubbed me the wrong way obviously. Hard not to get defensive and claws come out. I've slept a full night now and I'm calmer. :) And, for the record (in 2024): I am 100% for testing athletes, I do think our little sport is becoming a bigger sport quickly and we need to keep cheaters out. Giddyup! -Jeff Browning
Jeff, congrats on your 30th 100 mile win. Karl is probably the only one ahead of you. Heck of an accomplishment.
False. They do 200 mile races in the middle of winter in Northern Minnesota. No reason you can't race the mountains year round.
I think the window is more like 3-5 months, but that said, to compare a winter race in Minnesota to a winter race in the Alps, Rockies, or Sierras is absurd.
Depends on the mountain range. In parts of the San Juans, it is less than 2 months. For the Hardrock and Ouray 100, there is a small window in July between when the snow melts out sufficiently and when the monsoon thunderstorms peak in August. There’s a saying that there’s three seasons in the San Juans-July, August, and winter.