Try to keep the threads on topic. This thread is for discussion about Wiley's potential and whether she can be the next Athing Mu. If you want to talk about Huntington/PEDs, do so in this Huntington/PEDs thread. Some talk about how one may doubt the legitimacy of the performances is allowed as they are in all threads on letsrun, but we do not need every thread going down the Huntington/PED path.
We also plan on requiring registration on Wiley related threads to cut down on the volume of posts and to keep the same few people from posting voluminous amounts of pro or anti Wiley posts.
And if you do post, please do no post false information or impersonate someone else. A possible act of felonious identity deception occurred in one of the threads on Tuesday and we are happy to cooperate with the authorities if they ask. Posts like those are less likely to happen if we require registration.
Astro, are you saying that you 100% KNOW Wiley does PEDS?
With the impossible-progression method that you are using to determine usage, what is the line of demarcation between humanly possible and impossible rates of improvement? Thanks in advance.
If you are going to keep repeating your cherrypicked nonsense and pseudo-analysis, can you at least show the slight familiarity with this case? The idea that you cite that 1600m set at some strange open race with Lauren Johnson pacing her as evidence of a natural progression is absurd. Seriously, the documents and investigation reports are available.
Astro,
I do agree that the 4:26 race with a dedicated pro pacer was an advantage. She went from a 4:36.xx 1600m (4:38.xx mile) as a junior to a 4:26 1600m as a senior (4th fastest *U.S.* high school 1500/1600/mile and maybe in the top 75 U20 internationally). But the 4:36.xx as a junior was a sit and kick race for her., so we can’t say how much faster she could have gone in a rabbited race. The 4:26 1600m race was paced by a pro to go fast.
I don’t think a 10-second improvement in one year is unusual given that we’re comparing a sit and kick race to in 2021 to a race with a dedicated pro pacer in 2022.
Is there doping by Wiley or any of the other women I mentioned who made big improvements? I have no idea and my opinions is that well-meaning witch hunts based on suspicions is actually harmful to the sport in the long run.
Shoot, I didn't mean to kick this over to the next page. This last post by Twoggle is a great one.
The fact that adding 400m PBs to this makes Mu's aggregate time faster is pretty funny given the intrinsic weighting of this type of metric in Wiley's favor.
So it was a sit and kick race now. Ok. So where are the other times that could serve as a harbinger of suddenly running the fastest combined high school 1600/mile? You keep harping on 10 second improvement in a vacuum while I am pointing out that the time was itself was an outlier that nothing in her prior races suggested she could run. That is suddenly faster than Cain running for Salazar. Sure. And funny how of all the top high school milers who run in the 4:30s are stuck in that range through high school but she was the only one who had such a remarkable breakthrough. What a coincidence.
And frankly what aspect of her high school career can be trusted? She was being coached/mentored by the Johnsons from the time she was a freshman. It is curious.
Want to know what harms the sport more? Being a doping apologist or denialist. Looking at insane progressions like Houlihan or Chemusto or this case and coming up with rationalizations while ignoring the elephant in the room. The idea that you look at this scandal and see only a witch hunt is laughable. But steadfastly ignoring that context has been your entire m/o while you keep lamely trying to insist that her progression is remotly credible, that her historic times are totally understandable and have nothing to do with the scandal she is a part of.
Incorrect. Nobody is a doping apologist. Most of us hate doping more than you do. You falsely accuse runners who you don't like but quietly brush over many convicted ones or others who missed tests.
Please lay out the metrics that we should use to determine/accuse people of doping. What % each year from age 14-30 by year. Dint assume that parents won't dope their 14 or 15 year old.
I'm highly suspicious due to her continued associations with Nick and Lauren Johnson, the latter of which told the police she had prescriptions for EPO and testosterone. The former is accused by former HU athletes of giving them regular injections. I'm sorry, but these combined with her recent stunning performances are huge red flags.
And Wiley is only 19 amd she hasn't run in very many elite 800 races. Give her 3 or 4 more and she will run 1:55. Most people said Mu had no chance to break 4:05. Funny how some now claim that she can run a 3:58.
wait a few years and wiley will run a lot faster. while mu will never improve again.
And Wiley is only 19 amd she hasn't run in very many elite 800 races. Give her 3 or 4 more and she will run 1:55. Most people said Mu had no chance to break 4:05. Funny how some now claim that she can run a 3:58.
wait a few years and wiley will run a lot faster. while mu will never improve again.
damn, you sound like a smart person
it IS very possible we have already seen peak MU... she might be unwilling to get with the taco truck program... she might realize she is growing in to her womanhood and won't be able to win against team taco just by showing up... i think we all know that just a few pounds can make a huge difference in 2 laps of redlining... maybe this choice is what she is "struggling with" lately??
And Wiley is only 19 amd she hasn't run in very many elite 800 races. Give her 3 or 4 more and she will run 1:55. Most people said Mu had no chance to break 4:05. Funny how some now claim that she can run a 3:58.
wait a few years and wiley will run a lot faster. while mu will never improve again.
damn, you sound like a smart person
Wiley has the dumbest trolls ever. Mu ran a 49.5 400 like only a few days after she turned 19. Her upside in the 800 is huge. Mu’s competition is Mary and Keely. I doubt any of those three ladies even think about Wiley.
To compare Addy Wiley to Athing Mu is embarrassing. Also to put those type of expectations on her is unfair to Wiley.
Based on times, Addy Wiley is certainly one of the greatest US teen talents in US history but at this point in her career, a single medal at a global championship during her career would be a great accomplishment. Athing Mu already has two golds.
For me, it seems harder to win gold in the women's sports as teh very best seem to be just such outliers. In the 800, which I don't think is Wiley's event really, Keely and Athing had run 1:55 when they were Wiley's age.
In the 1500, Kipyegon isn't losing until she retires. Nelly Chepchirchir, who was born in 2003 just like Wiley, has run 3:56.72. A 16-year old Ethiopian Saron Berhe jusgt ran 4:00.46 in Brussels and no one is writing 10 page threads about her. She also ran 4:00 6 days before that in Xiamen.
wait a few years and wiley will run a lot faster. while mu will never improve again.
damn, you sound like a smart person
it IS very possible we have already seen peak MU... she might be unwilling to get with the taco truck program... she might realize she is growing in to her womanhood and won't be able to win against team taco just by showing up... i think we all know that just a few pounds can make a huge difference in 2 laps of redlining... maybe this choice is what she is "struggling with" lately??
What does this even mean? Growing into womanhood? Mu’s 21 years old ffs!! Have you actually even seen her? She’s about 6 feet tall and stick thin. All legs. She does not have to even think about weight.
To compare Addy Wiley to Athing Mu is embarrassing. Also to put those type of expectations on her is unfair to Wiley.
Based on times, Addy Wiley is certainly one of the greatest US teen talents in US history but at this point in her career, a single medal at a global championship during her career would be a great accomplishment. Athing Mu already has two golds.
So, you can only compare one runner's future potential against another great runner IF they have an equal amount of gold medals? Got it.
Also, what's embarrassing and unfair is what you did to Wiley for clicks.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
We don’t want every Addy Wiley thread turning into a discussion of the Huntington University scandal or pure PED speculation.
Try to keep the threads on topic. This thread is for discussion about Wiley's potential and whether she can be the next Athing Mu. If you want to talk about Huntington/PEDs, do so in this Huntington/PEDs thread. Some talk about how one may doubt the legitimacy of the performances is allowed as they are in all threads on letsrun, but we do not need every thread going down the Huntington/PED path.
We also plan on requiring registration on Wiley related threads to cut down on the volume of posts and to keep the same few people from posting voluminous amounts of pro or anti Wiley posts.
And if you do post, please do no post false information or impersonate someone else. A possible act of felonious identity deception occurred in one of the threads on Tuesday and we are happy to cooperate with the authorities if they ask. Posts like those are less likely to happen if we require registration.
What is the difference between a "pure PED" speculation and a regular speculation?
You said that you banned the impersonating poster. I believe it was a non-registered poster. How were you able to do that? If 2 posters make a wager in which the loser (whoever is the liar) is banned, can LRC assist with this?
To compare Addy Wiley to Athing Mu is embarrassing. Also to put those type of expectations on her is unfair to Wiley.
Based on times, Addy Wiley is certainly one of the greatest US teen talents in US history but at this point in her career, a single medal at a global championship during her career would be a great accomplishment. Athing Mu already has two golds.
For me, it seems harder to win gold in the women's sports as teh very best seem to be just such outliers. In the 800, which I don't think is Wiley's event really, Keely and Athing had run 1:55 when they were Wiley's age.
In the 1500, Kipyegon isn't losing until she retires. Nelly Chepchirchir, who was born in 2003 just like Wiley, has run 3:56.72. A 16-year old Ethiopian Saron Berhe jusgt ran 4:00.46 in Brussels and no one is writing 10 page threads about her. She also ran 4:00 6 days before that in Xiamen.
I think her best event is the 800m. Running 1:57.6 in a non DL/championship meet is very good. 8th in the world with that time and only .35 second off of a top 4 time in the world. The potential is there to get into sub 1:57 which would put her in the conversation to medal.
The 1500m is extremely competitive and 3:59 is not that great in the Kipyegon era. Hell, 3:59 won’t even guarantee you to make the final. That’s how crazy the women’s 1500m is. And let’s be honest, Wiley’s obvious weakness is her 3k-5k ability which she needs to improve on if she want to be competitive at the world level. Hassan, Kipyegon, Muir, Welteji, etc all can run well under 15min for 5k.