“there is no Norwegian doctor or diagnosis in the picture“ -this is not quite correct: Jakob consulted the Norwegian head physician Ove Talsnes between 1500m final and 5000m relay, and even got a diagnosis ( “a cold, fever, but not an infection”).
But the real thing is this: IMO a lot of the reasons why Jakob is both disliked and liked is his honesty. -So I really don’t get that you and others doubt Jakob’s explanation here (feeling bad, soured throat, and so on). Furthermore: “ Without independent verification, it's just you believe him or you don't.” -How on earth can’t you see that Jakob underperformed grossly (despite running a good tactically race) -maybe as much as 2 -3 seconds, and despite his stellar performance in the semifinals- reality (the race) and Jakob’s explanation is very much coherent here -where are your eyes and logic..?
Did he really “underperform grossly”, time-wise? He ran 2 secs off his PR while leading for 1100m and dropping a 58 mid-race.
A 3:27 guy running 3:29 without rabbits while front-running and dropping a slow middle lap doesn’t scream illness or injury to me.
I’m not saying he’s lying about being sick but I don’t think Jakob or others have been honest about how far ahead of the field he is. He’s clearly the most talented, but even in his DL races he was only winning by 1-2 seconds; a strength-based 3:27 guy running against speed-based 3:28-3:29 guys is always going to be a bit vulnerable in a championship race.
Did he really “underperform grossly”, time-wise? He ran 2 secs off his PR while leading for 1100m and dropping a 58 mid-race.
A 3:27 guy running 3:29 without rabbits while front-running and dropping a slow middle lap doesn’t scream illness or injury to me.
I’m not saying he’s lying about being sick but I don’t think Jakob or others have been honest about how far ahead of the field he is. He’s clearly the most talented, but even in his DL races he was only winning by 1-2 seconds; a strength-based 3:27 guy running against speed-based 3:28-3:29 guys is always going to be a bit vulnerable in a championship race.
Fair enough response from you, but I really do disagree:
1. I don’t think Jakob is a 3.27 guy. I think he is faster. -All signs tell me that his 3.27.14 in Silesia was on a bad day. (He very much said this himself as well).
2. The pacers in Silesia didn’t function as pacers (well, they helped Jakob getting the rail in the first bend) - I’m pretty sure he could have soloed (with no other athletes in the race) a low 3.27 that day… (But of course he was polite enough to tell how much the pacers ment -psychologically).
3. I think the semi finals showed that Jakob had a better peak now than in Silesia.
4. Although I think Kerr can run a 3.28 under optimal conditions I think Jakob has (at least) maintained the 2 sec gap between their pr’s this year.
“there is no Norwegian doctor or diagnosis in the picture“ -this is not quite correct: Jakob consulted the Norwegian head physician Ove Talsnes between 1500m final and 5000m relay, and even got a diagnosis ( “a cold, fever, but not an infection”).
But the real thing is this: IMO a lot of the reasons why Jakob is both disliked and liked is his honesty. -So I really don’t get that you and others doubt Jakob’s explanation here (feeling bad, soured throat, and so on). Furthermore: “ Without independent verification, it's just you believe him or you don't.” -How on earth can’t you see that Jakob underperformed grossly (despite running a good tactically race) -maybe as much as 2 -3 seconds, and despite his stellar performance in the semifinals- reality (the race) and Jakob’s explanation is very much coherent here -where are your eyes and logic..?
Did he really “underperform grossly”, time-wise? He ran 2 secs off his PR while leading for 1100m and dropping a 58 mid-race.
A 3:27 guy running 3:29 without rabbits while front-running and dropping a slow middle lap doesn’t scream illness or injury to me.
I’m not saying he’s lying about being sick but I don’t think Jakob or others have been honest about how far ahead of the field he is. He’s clearly the most talented, but even in his DL races he was only winning by 1-2 seconds; a strength-based 3:27 guy running against speed-based 3:28-3:29 guys is always going to be a bit vulnerable in a championship race.
He was 2 and a HALF sec from his PB set in Silesia.
And as I wrote in my post above: In the Silesia race there was some separation from the pacemakers so his benefit was limited.
Also: He ran slightly slower than in last year´s WC final even though he had a more clean race ( no disturbance from Kipsang or Tim).
Finally: He is probably one level up from last year considering his PB in the 1500m and WB in the 2 mile so everything equal he should have run 1 sec faster than in the last WC 1500m final.
Conclusion: He was not at his VERY BEST which is necessary if he want to beat - by frontrunning - the many great current milers.
I stated shortly before the final that Nuguse´s (and the other top competitors`) best chance was to let Jakob frontrun hoping to annilate his time advantage. I estimated in the same post that Jakob possibly had to run at least 3:28 to beat the field.
ya, i think that 58 second lap showed he didnt have it, whether for illness or some other reason. He was always gonna need a 56 there to drop the rest of the field and make them work as hard as he was.
going through two laps in 1:54 killed all of his advantage. He still ran a really nice last lap, and there are several years where that race is good enough. Kerr is a really talented runner.
So when he waved to the crowd in his semi you didn't pick he wasn't at "peak fitness". He's not at "peak fitness" it appears when he doesn't either set a world record or when he loses. You aren't in a position to make an observation about anyone else's intelligence. That would require intelligence.
You aren't in a position to make an observation about anyone else's intelligence. That would require intelligence.
I see the puppy that follows me around from thread to thread has chimed in, with nothing as usual about the thread subject. Too hard when all you can do is make yapping sounds.
Did he really “underperform grossly”, time-wise? He ran 2 secs off his PR while leading for 1100m and dropping a 58 mid-race.
A 3:27 guy running 3:29 without rabbits while front-running and dropping a slow middle lap doesn’t scream illness or injury to me.
I’m not saying he’s lying about being sick but I don’t think Jakob or others have been honest about how far ahead of the field he is. He’s clearly the most talented, but even in his DL races he was only winning by 1-2 seconds; a strength-based 3:27 guy running against speed-based 3:28-3:29 guys is always going to be a bit vulnerable in a championship race.
Fair enough response from you, but I really do disagree:
1. I don’t think Jakob is a 3.27 guy. I think he is faster. -All signs tell me that his 3.27.14 in Silesia was on a bad day. (He very much said this himself as well).
2. The pacers in Silesia didn’t function as pacers (well, they helped Jakob getting the rail in the first bend) - I’m pretty sure he could have soloed (with no other athletes in the race) a low 3.27 that day… (But of course he was polite enough to tell how much the pacers ment -psychologically).
3. I think the semi finals showed that Jakob had a better peak now than in Silesia.
4. Although I think Kerr can run a 3.28 under optimal conditions I think Jakob has (at least) maintained the 2 sec gap between their pr’s this year.
I don't think Jakob is faster than 3.27-high. He lacks the speed - as we have also seen in these championship finals.
However, as we saw with El G, even a 3.26 guy can lose a championship(Olympic) final.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
You don't think he is faster than 3.27-high when he has actually ran 3.27-low? Holy hell this absolute garbage pile of a forum never ceases to amaze me.
Well, if he's so weak, why was he undefeated in circuit races this year prior to World Champs? Kerr beat him once, as did Wightman last year. He also lost to Cheruiyot once in 2021, I believe. He's still the best 1500m in the world, but he's vulnerable in championship races when he's not 100% or when he can't get the paces he needs to blow away his opposition in hot conditions. He still has that monumental world best at 2 miles, something superior to the 3k record. Kerr was doing 8x400@54.8 recently. Jakob was doing multiple 1:49.6s before the 2M record. I have to think that he was ill for this race, because he was in incredible shape earlier in the season, and as late as the semis, still had a kick that was totally lacking in the finals.
He also ran super fast front runs in these two races and beat all but 1 person in stacked fields. I’m more inclined to say his tactic is a hard way to win a championship 1500 than he choked. Choking would be going out and racing less than your best.
people here keep saying that he doesn’t have enough speed. Why do people keep on saying this he has shown that he is levels above everyone who has a 1:44 PR. He simply did not have enough at the end to stay with Kerr. Possibly due to illness and other stress factors
“there is no Norwegian doctor or diagnosis in the picture“ -this is not quite correct: Jakob consulted the Norwegian head physician Ove Talsnes between 1500m final and 5000m relay, and even got a diagnosis ( “a cold, fever, but not an infection”).
So only Ingeb has some illness when he lose? the other runners are immune when they lose? Maybe we should put a microscope over his head to detect microscopic illness that lead to defeats.
This said, I think he has all chances to win today.
This post was edited 33 seconds after it was posted.
Henrik has a long vent, blaming the national athletics association for causing stress on Jakob, which influenced his overall wellbeing and caused him to miss out on the win. "Obviously the system around Jakob has failed completely", he said. "When an elite athlete and gold-favorite has the worst day of the year in a WC final, it is obvious that he hasn't been taken care of correctly."
When asked whether he could specify things that the association should have done differently, Henrik says, "everything". "Im not pointing to anything (specifically), but it is obvious that outside influences reduced him so that he couldnt perform his best".
When pushed to explain why Jakob didn't consult a doctor about this unspecified illness, that was revealed only after loosing gold, Henrik replied, sarcasticall, "what could they do?"
people here keep saying that he doesn’t have enough speed. Why do people keep on saying this he has shown that he is levels above everyone who has a 1:44 PR. He simply did not have enough at the end to stay with Kerr. Possibly due to illness and other stress factors
He is also levels above anyone who can run 45s for the 400. That doesn't make him "faster". Your point is irrelevant. He has a faster 1500 time than his fellow competitors who have a faster 800 but that is because of his endurance, not his speed. In a close finish we can see that he is beaten by runners with more speed and enough endurance.
You don't think he is faster than 3.27-high when he has actually ran 3.27-low? Holy hell this absolute garbage pile of a forum never ceases to amaze me.
A geek speaks. His 3.27-low still doesn't mean he is going to run 3.26 or better. Unless he does a Kiprop, of course - which he probably already does.
people here keep saying that he doesn’t have enough speed. Why do people keep on saying this he has shown that he is levels above everyone who has a 1:44 PR. He simply did not have enough at the end to stay with Kerr. Possibly due to illness and other stress factors
He's the slowest 800 meter runner out of the fast 1500 runners, which means that the slower the race the more vulnerable he is. And yes, 3:30 is not blazing fast for many of these runners. For the 1500 we can't even really say he has a kick - he is just the best at sustaining a very fast pace, and is able to not slow down nearly as much as others through the finish line. He paced the field too slowly and got sniped. No excuses.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
When exercising, your body temperature goes up. He probably just measured his body temp right after warm up and it registered as a fever. Normal in this heat.
people here keep saying that he doesn’t have enough speed. Why do people keep on saying this he has shown that he is levels above everyone who has a 1:44 PR. He simply did not have enough at the end to stay with Kerr. Possibly due to illness and other stress factors
He's the slowest 800 meter runner out of the fast 1500 runners, which means that the slower the race the more vulnerable he is. And yes, 3:30 is not blazing fast for many of these runners. For the 1500 we can't even really say he has a kick - he is just the best at sustaining a very fast pace, and is able to not slow down nearly as much as others through the finish line. He paced the field too slowly and got sniped. No excuses.
Unless you’re only considering kerr and wightman as the other fast 1500 meter runners, I’m not sure this is true.
I do agree a faster pace would be good for him in a championship though, even with his 3:32 DL win this year, I think he just has more security the faster it goes