c'mon lll wrote:
That 1500m was ran at nearly 4000ft and I don't think that was an important race, he was likely training through it.
He probably could have ran 3:32 in Monaco around that time with proper rest.
Keino ran his fastest ever 1500 at 7800 feet. I'll believe 3'32" when I see it.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Complete manure. He ran 3.37 in a 1500 race. It wasn't a pace training session for a longer distance. He has run 1500 races before, but never beaten 3.37. To reinforce the utter stupidity of your "analysis", no 1500m runner enters an 800m race to run it at 1500 pace. And no 5k runner chooses to race a shorter race at the pace of a longer distance - unless they like to lose, and badly. Words like "extension of intensity" are gibberish coming from your mouth. Alternatively, it can simply be summed up as doping - which is what doping does, make you run faster for longer.
In modern training, an 800m/1500m runner wouldn't train like a 5000m/10000m runner.
Cheptegei didn't lose so badly, running 1500m at near his 5000m pace..
So "modern training" makes you slow over shorter distances. Good argument.
rekrunner wrote:
Here is some general non-contrary evidence:
- Kipchoge set the world record in new shoes in Sep. 2018
- the top 5 fastest times were set since 2018
- 7 out of the top 10 fastest times were set since 2018
"Non-contrary" is a strange euphemism for "irrelevant." Your rebuttal is to offer pure speculation as "evidence?" My turn.
- Haile Gebreselassie ran the first-ever sub 2:04 in 2008.
- the top 30 fastest times were set since 2008
Therefore Haile must have been doing something revolutionary that everyone else copied? No. He got faster, and people after him got even faster still. That's what normally happens.
The non-cherry-picked view since 2018 includes not just those two "top 5" races from 2019, but all the other races where everyone failed to break 2:03. Including Eliud. The big picture shows the 6 runners who improved on Haile's record in the 6 years before Kimetto, compared to only 4 who have so far bettered Kimetto in the 7 years since. In the past 20 years, the longest the WR has gone without being broken is 4 years; we're now at 3 and counting.
No, shifting the burden won't do. There is nothing special happening. Just plain old marketing.
Armstronglivs wrote:
So "modern training" makes you slow over shorter distances. Good argument.
I guess that's one way to look at it.
I suppose you are equally confused about Lydiard's fractional efforts. Why would Lydiard tell anyone to run at 1/4th or 1/2 or 3/4th or 7/8th effort rather than giving it 100%?
Centrowitz is a 3:30 athlete over 1500m, but in 2016, won 2 world gold medals running 3:44 and 3:50. In 2013, 3:37 was good enough for Centro for a world silver. These weren't training runs in an off-event in a no name meet in April at altitude.
Bad Wigins wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Here is some general non-contrary evidence:
- Kipchoge set the world record in new shoes in Sep. 2018
- the top 5 fastest times were set since 2018
- 7 out of the top 10 fastest times were set since 2018
"Non-contrary" is a strange euphemism for "irrelevant." Your rebuttal is to offer pure speculation as "evidence?" My turn.
- Haile Gebreselassie ran the first-ever sub 2:04 in 2008.
- the top 30 fastest times were set since 2008
Therefore Haile must have been doing something revolutionary that everyone else copied? No. He got faster, and people after him got even faster still. That's what normally happens.
The non-cherry-picked view since 2018 includes not just those two "top 5" races from 2019, but all the other races where everyone failed to break 2:03. Including Eliud. The big picture shows the 6 runners who improved on Haile's record in the 6 years before Kimetto, compared to only 4 who have so far bettered Kimetto in the 7 years since. In the past 20 years, the longest the WR has gone without being broken is 4 years; we're now at 3 and counting.
No, shifting the burden won't do. There is nothing special happening. Just plain old marketing.
Haile did do something revolutionary -- he went for world records in the marathon.
I didn't offer pure speculation, but historical facts. Citing two peer-reviewed papers is quite far from cherry-picking. One looked at distances from 10K to the marathon, and at men and women separately.
The "top 5" are from three races, not two. The "7 of the top 10" is four races.
After Kimetto, we have "top 5"; "7 of the top 10"; and "14 of the top 30". Haile's record from 2008 is now #31. This makes 16 over 10 years, until Kimetto, then 14 over 3 years, one impacted by COVID race cancellations.
You predicted some lesser runners should join the ranks of Kimetto, and he is now flanked by Legesse, Geremew, and Evans Chebet. After running world record level 2:03s, seasoned career athletes Kipchoge and Bekele found another 1m20s+ from 2016 to 2019.
What about Chicago? 10 Americans in one race as good as 9 Americans over 12 years? 18 Americans setting personal bests?
What about the two peer-reviewed papers?
I can pick enough cherries to fill a warehouse, while your basket is empty.
You are the one who said "The evidence is generally contrary". That is a high burden of proof, and it is yours.
Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
In modern training, an 800m/1500m runner wouldn't train like a 5000m/10000m runner.
Cheptegei didn't lose so badly, running 1500m at near his 5000m pace..
So "modern training" makes you slow over shorter distances. Good argument.
Oh the ignorance ^^
Armstronglivs wrote:
c'mon lll wrote:
That 1500m was ran at nearly 4000ft and I don't think that was an important race, he was likely training through it.
He probably could have ran 3:32 in Monaco around that time with proper rest.
Keino ran his fastest ever 1500 at 7800 feet. I'll believe 3'32" when I see it.
What were Keino's 5000 m and 10000 m best times?
5679 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So "modern training" makes you slow over shorter distances. Good argument.
Oh the ignorance ^^
Where would you pin the donkey?
https://miro.medium.com/max/1626/1*sxX6g-SvEknQ0_yMcidjiQ.png5679 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So "modern training" makes you slow over shorter distances. Good argument.
Oh the ignorance ^^
Yes, he is ignorant.
5679 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Keino ran his fastest ever 1500 at 7800 feet. I'll believe 3'32" when I see it.
What were Keino's 5000 m and 10000 m best times?
Irrelevant deflection. The claim is that Cheptegei's time was slower because of altitude. Keino showed that it doesn't necessarily follow - and his best ever 1500 time was at a far higher altitude. (He was also, incidentally, a world record holder over the 5k - like Cheptegei.)
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So "modern training" makes you slow over shorter distances. Good argument.
I guess that's one way to look at it.
I suppose you are equally confused about Lydiard's fractional efforts. Why would Lydiard tell anyone to run at 1/4th or 1/2 or 3/4th or 7/8th effort rather than giving it 100%?
Centrowitz is a 3:30 athlete over 1500m, but in 2016, won 2 world gold medals running 3:44 and 3:50. In 2013, 3:37 was good enough for Centro for a world silver. These weren't training runs in an off-event in a no name meet in April at altitude.
So a runner whose best so far over the 1500 is top of Div 2 you are likening to an Olympic champion over the distance, whose best time is 3.30. Wake me up when Cheptegei beats 3.35. One of the most striking features of your arguments is that you don't grasp how stupid you sound.
rekrunner wrote:
5679 wrote:
Oh the ignorance ^^
Where would you pin the donkey?
https://miro.medium.com/max/1626/1*sxX6g-SvEknQ0_yMcidjiQ.png
That's quite fitting, posted as it is by a horse's a*se.
You just said above that Cheptegei did quite well to run the 1500 at near his 5k pace. I wonder if you reflect for a moment before you commit words to print. Unbelievable.
Armstronglivs wrote:
You just said above that Cheptegei did quite well to run the 1500 at near his 5k pace. I wonder if you reflect for a moment before you commit words to print. Unbelievable.
Those look like your words, not mine. I don't give your words any moment of reflection.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You just said above that Cheptegei did quite well to run the 1500 at near his 5k pace. I wonder if you reflect for a moment before you commit words to print. Unbelievable.
Those look like your words, not mine. I don't give your words any moment of reflection.
I wonder if he reflects for a moment before he commits words to print. Unbelievable.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You just said above that Cheptegei did quite well to run the 1500 at near his 5k pace. I wonder if you reflect for a moment before you commit words to print. Unbelievable.
Those look like your words, not mine. I don't give your words any moment of reflection.
You might have reflected before you said this.
"Cheptegei didn't lose so badly, running 1500m at near his 5000m pace.."[/quote]
You've just set a world mark for stupid.
5679 wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Those look like your words, not mine. I don't give your words any moment of reflection.
I wonder if he reflects for a moment before he commits words to print. Unbelievable.
I do. I realise there are those like you who have the comprehension level of an axolotl. Unbelievable.
Armstronglivs wrote:
So a runner whose best so far over the 1500 is top of Div 2 you are likening to an Olympic champion over the distance, whose best time is 3.30. Wake me up when Cheptegei beats 3.35. One of the most striking features of your arguments is that you don't grasp how stupid you sound.
Div. 2 is fast enough when high school times win world gold medals.
You said no one would run 3:37 "unless they like to lose, and badly". 3:37 would have one at least two world golds and one world silver in the 1500m. One of those golds was slower than Cheptegei's 5000m world record pace. I guess reality sounds stupid to you, but your hearing is not my concern.
Armstronglivs wrote:
You might have reflected before you said this.
"Cheptegei didn't lose so badly, running 1500m at near his 5000m pace.."
You've just set a world mark for stupid.
In this case, I was reflecting on your predicted consequence "like to lose, and badly". At least you recognize the stupidity when the reflection is held up to you in a mirror.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
So a runner whose best so far over the 1500 is top of Div 2 you are likening to an Olympic champion over the distance, whose best time is 3.30. Wake me up when Cheptegei beats 3.35. One of the most striking features of your arguments is that you don't grasp how stupid you sound.
Div. 2 is fast enough when high school times win world gold medals.
You said no one would run 3:37 "unless they like to lose, and badly". 3:37 would have one at least two world golds and one world silver in the 1500m. One of those golds was slower than Cheptegei's 5000m world record pace. I guess reality sounds stupid to you, but your hearing is not my concern.
As usual, you resort to lies when you don't have an argument. I didn't say what you claim. Here's what I actually said, you ignorant horse's a*se.
"... no 1500m runner enters an 800m race to run it at 1500 pace. And no 5k runner chooses to race a shorter race at the pace of a longer distance - unless they like to lose, and badly."
Obviously you don't understand what that means, which is that a runner who wishes to win doesn't treat a shorter race as though he is running a longer one.
You meanwhile have continued to argue that Cheptegei used the1500 race simply as pacing practice for running a longer distance, which is why his time was relatively unimpressive. So he wasn't trying to win? (He didn't.) You have no idea what his aims were. Has he told you? Unless you are part of his coaching team, you have no idea what his training is either. Whatever it is, he has never been better than Div 2 over the 1500. You are utterly full of sh*t.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You might have reflected before you said this.
"Cheptegei didn't lose so badly, running 1500m at near his 5000m pace.."
You've just set a world mark for stupid.
In this case, I was reflecting on your predicted consequence "like to lose, and badly". At least you recognize the stupidity when the reflection is held up to you in a mirror.
So you don't actually understand your own comments, when you say "Cheptegei didn't lose so badly, running 1500m at his 5000m pace.".
What would be "losing badly" - running it at his 10,000m pace? Or maybe marathon pace? But 5000m pace is ok? I wonder why he didn't run it at his 1500m pace - since it was a 1500m event. But that hasn't occurred to you, in your basement.
