50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Sun: 51’ jog

Mon: off

Tue: 52’ jog, swim, body wt ex

Wed: off

Thu: 51’ jog, body wt ex

Fri: off (heat wave day 1)

Sat: off (heat wave day 2)

Sun: 35’ jog (heat wave day 3)

First month in 3 years with no golf.

Best to all.

Tue = 4.5 miles and 858 feet climbing all-out gut-busting effort

Thr = 45 min rocky trail, 500 feet climbing

Sat = 20 min warmup, 1600 in 6:59, then 2 400’s in 1:34, 1:37

Sun = 49 min 900 feet climbing

My trail group picked just about the rockiest and most steep section for the Tue workout. It was a killer workout as I hung on to stay about 7th out of 12 folks running.

My legs were feeling strong and I wanted to test them out on the track Sat. Despite feeling so good I was surprised to actually slow down a bit, to a 6:59. This despite 2 really hard weeks on the trails. It really does support the point that even though the trail may feel fast: IT AINT. We had a discussion here a few years ago where I summarized the point with a Yogi Bear-ism: “You caint go fast by goin slow”. Which we later amended to “you caint go fast by ALWAYS goin slow”. True then, true now.

I officially preregistered for a 5K for Aug 11, the one my HS coach founded in 1974. It will be a personal worst but I’m doing it for him.

Good luck to those running July 4th races!

*Week 368*

Greetings, 50+ers! Sorry for the late start from me...had a busy morning. Wow, quite a bit of discussion the last few days. I'll have to devote some time to getting caught up! No advancement on mileage this week, as I still only made it about 22.5 miles on 5 days, with another 10-or-so miles of deliberate walking. A bit of a reprieve Monday and Tuesday, but the heat and humidity has been pretty miserable all week. Log reads as such:

Sun: Off, but good walk

Mon: 4.2 (7:59/mi avg) Progression thru 2.6

Tue: 5.0 (7:59/mi avg) One mile at about 6:30

Wed: 5.0 (9:10/mi) Slow Slog

Thu: 1.3 (8:35/mi) After 3.2 miles, I got tired of walking

Fri: Off, long steamy walk instead

Sat: 7.0 (8:18/mi avg) done as two progressions

Tentatively optmistic that the knee is on the upswing; it's felt better this week than it has in quite a while. The long walks are eating into my training time, but they really seem to be helping. Still haven't seen much movement on the scale.

Glad you all are doing the heavy lifting to keep the thread relevant. I don't have much to add at this juncture....maybe down the road. Still not feeling road ready, so am opting out of the Bluegrass 10000. Pains me to do that but I see no reason, given where I'm at, to race this 7/4 thing.

Good luck to all you running Independence Day races. I'll look forward to your reports!

All the Best!

Lots of good discussion this week. Thanks Big Mango for the clarification on who brought up the questions on peaking, and interesting that we take a similar approach. Good to have you back Cush and hope see you in Tulsa if not sooner. Charlie, KP, and 63 good luck at USATF track this month!

As far as the time to train a masters/senior. It was difficult 20 years ago, when I was working hard as a postdoc, had a baby and a toddler in the house, fighting of injuries. Back then I averaged 40-50 mpw and took a lot of hits from some of the well known mileage mavens (you can guess the lead smacker on that!) who said I should be doing 100+ mile weeks, and was a weak human being (perhaps subhuman) for not doing so.

As the kids got bigger and my career became more established I was able to put in a more training time, while enjoying many years of working with the kids and their friends. Been empty nesters for nearly 4 years now and I train 8-10 hours a week. That's not too hard when you have a 40 hour work week. I'm not limited by time these days, it's more about durability after 6 decades--treading that thin line.

Anyway, my week: 47 miles on five days (took two recovery days Monday and Tuesday). Did a 3 mile uphill temp on Wednesday, going from 7600 to 8250 feet; felt good. Then yesterday drove to Vail and did the first 6 of the Vail Hill Climb course (about 2200') and back down, the latter was sort of hard on my knee. But bounced back decently today, with an easy 10 on a flat loop around a lake.

lucKY2b wrote:

Still not feeling road ready, so am opting out of the Bluegrass 10000. Pains me to do that but I see no reason, given where I'm at, to race this 7/4 thing.

How about ...

1) It would establish a new benchmark from which to improve

2) You can see a few old friends

3) It would allow some of the more humbly-talented runners a chance to finish ahead of you for a change

4) That cold beer will be all the better after 6.2 sweltering miles at "current race pace"!

Seriously, though, I understand exactly what you mean. Really difficult to be in a race when you're not where you could or should be. Hopefully the knee is just about healthy, and things continue on the upswing for you.

Good to hear from a lot of fiends for life. Cush... I'm particularly inspired by your words. Thanks.

Small set-back this week with a gastro-int something Tue pm plus a few days. Barely made the plane to ATL to visit my brother in Cartersville. OK now but man oh man is this heat & humidity a killer for us western folks.

Hoping my fitness measured by another solid Alan Webb speed-endurance workout will get me to the top of the podium for one of my two races at Masters Nats. Never easy but i'm enjoying the growing confidence.

Shawsville 5k coming up Wednesday as my family move to visit with more relatives in VA.

Hope all y'll are enjoying summer miles and racing.

KP

Calf issues off and on for 18 years the calf heart attack article Runnersworld 1996 John Parker is really good.

Things I do that work for me not covered in the above article:

-Barefoot soft surface walking some jogging as per Parker's article

-Walking steep treadmill hills vary the incline slowly say every 2 minutes starting at zero at your normal walking pace working up to the point where there is tightness in the calf back it down 1 percent then continue the 2 minute pattern while lowering the deck. Also I focus on relaxing my calf muscles and bending my knees if there is tightness I slow down the pace

-Start running on treadmill do the walking steep hills for an hour as a warmup then if and only if your calfs are relaxed jog a bit using the treadmill armrests to reduce your landing weight focus on relaxing the calfs and using your upper legs more on push off so this is run walk

-K Tape 40 percent or so stretch from achilles up gastroc to back of knee this works really well looks goofy started this about a month ago after having success using K tape for PF very happy with this.

-Pure Wave cordless massager using the jack hammer attachment used this to break up scare tissue really hurts but really works no longer hurts as I am not getting the tears/knots anymore

-Really nice slant board link:

https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Mid-Size-Adjustable-Incline-Stretcher/dp/B077GBLFL3/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1530492484&sr=8-3&keywords=slant+board+calf+stretcher&dpID=51FWfECzIGL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

that '96 article is what has helped me so far this week. hopefully it takes permanently...

I just read that "calf heart attack" article and it sounds like exactly what I have. Or I hope, had. I ended up taking 2 weeks completely off from running, followed by 2 weeks in which I jogged exactly one mile each week, followed by a 4-mile week. I do believe that all that time off, along with aggressive stretching, solved the problem for me...knock on wood...

Mon. 20 km mountain bike ride. 215 metres elevation gain. 1 hr 2min.

Tue. 10 km run. 185 metres elevation gain. 57 min.

31 min. kayak session.

Wed. 20 km mountain bike ride. 215 metres elevation gain. 1 hr 5 min.

Thu. 10 km run. 210 metres elevation gain. 1 hour.

30 min. hard kayak session.

Sat. 24 km mountain bike ride. 455 metres elevation gain. 1 hr 9 min.

32 min. kayak session.

Sun. 10 km run. 300 metres elevation gain. 1 hr 5 min.

Late posting. Doing well, getting stronger.

Monday: traveling to Driggs, Idaho

Tuesday: return

Wednesday: 1.5 miles easy/walk; form drills; 4 x 600m tempo @ 3:15-3:20 / 400m walk; 800m easy/walk

Thursday: 60:00 spin bike; core; weights

Friday: 3 miles easy/walk

Saturday: 1.5 miles easy/walk; 4 x 100m strides; 2 x 800m tempo @ 4:16, 4:17 / 400m walk; 3 x 200m repetition @ 48, 45, 44 / 200m walk; 400m walk/easy

Sunday: 3 mile walk

Speed not bad but respiration is poor. All should be expected I think. Have a good week.

Igy

Igy 7/2/2018 wrote:

Late posting. Doing well, getting stronger.

Monday: traveling to Driggs, Idaho

Tuesday: return

Wednesday: 1.5 miles easy/walk; form drills; 4 x 600m tempo @ 3:15-3:20 / 400m walk; 800m easy/walk

Thursday: 60:00 spin bike; core; weights

Friday: 3 miles easy/walk

Saturday: 1.5 miles easy/walk; 4 x 100m strides; 2 x 800m tempo @ 4:16, 4:17 / 400m walk; 3 x 200m repetition @ 48, 45, 44 / 200m walk; 400m walk/easy

Sunday: 3 mile walk

Speed not bad but respiration is poor. All should be expected I think. Have a good week.

Igy

Good stuff mate.

Igy, your 200's are already faster than mine last week! Wow, I did do 4x400 on Tuesday on the roads, and then was chased home by a HEAVY rainstorm. So two days later did 4x200 on a bike path, and all were just under 8:00/mile pace.

Wednesday is our "Four on the Fourth" 4 miler, hilly, and looks to be warm and humid, so will take it a bit easy as we have 6 hours of work afterwards. Cannot work too hard in the heat, not worth it any more, when there's much more life to enjoy.

Had a good time in Des Moines watching USATF Nationals, shame that they could not fill the stands. Several good Iowans to watch, Shelby Houlihan being the top performer. Certainly enjoyed seeing Courtney Frerichs race Emma Coburn all the way to the finish.

My wife and I were actually caught on camera a couple times during the Saturday coverage, I had the neon yellow Hayward Field shirt on with a neon yellow jacket to block the sun, and a black baseball hat. Wife had a gray lightweight jacket on. Fun to see us, by sad that so few people were in the stands.

Great week and all the slight niggles have improved. My hip is almost 100% and calves are feeling fresh. Focussing on not running lazy ( bad form) on the treadmill resolved the hip issues in a few days and a couple hour sessions of extreme self massage eliminated all the tightness in the calves. Found a new tool at the gym to release tendons/muscles in my lower legs. A simple weight bar with 10 lbs on both ends is far superior to the foam roller. Just laid my leg on the bar and pushed down with the other leg. Wonder if the torque might actually snap a tendon but lucky so far. Only concern is a slight tingle in my PF and hopefully it is just imagined. PF fear has caused me to be hypersensitive.

Summary:

Week----Item------------------Time

26-------Run-------------------03:25

26-------Run Incline Treadmill-07:07

26-------Run Treadmill---------00:35

26-------Walk Incline Treadmill--00:10

Date--Time of Day---Acivity----Duration--AvgHR/Max--Workout--WO Duration-Note

06-25---18:05----Run-------------01:09-----146/174 -10k effort--00:11---5.27 mile pace for 2 miles. much harder than tread

06-25---18:07----Run Incline TM -00:31-----114/122 -None--------00:00---

06-26---09:52----Run Incline TM -00:34-----111/120 -None--------00:00---

06-27---11:17----Run Incline TM -00:40-----113/122 -None--------00:00---

06-27---11:18----Walk Incline TM-00:10-----108/115 -None--------00:00---

06-27---19:19----Run-------------01:15-----145/173 -Threshold--00:18---17.40 5k - harder than expected

06-28---17:47----Run Incline TM -01:44-----125/135 -None--------00:00---25 min barefoot

06-28---12:12----Run Incline TM -00:41-----120/129 -None--------00:00---

06-29---12:20----Run Incline TM -01:06-----115/130 -None--------00:00---

06-29---17:20----Run Incline TM -01:01-----117/128 -None--------00:00---10 min barefoot

06-30---11:17----Run Treadmill---00:35-----139/168 -Threshold--00:25---17.5kph (5.30 mile)

06-30---11:20----Run Incline TM -00:26-----139/144 -None--------00:00---

07-01---19:04----Run-------------01:01-----138/150 -None--------00:00---

07-01---12:06----Run Incline TM -00:24-----115/125 -None--------00:00---

Nice week Igy can't speak for others on this thread but I sure do enjoy reading your posts.

Here is a short funny story about Idaho

I grew up in North Idaho. On a gray sub zero day I went to a warm green San Francisco. I was 17. I was going on my first big adventure I had joined the Army . A few of the guys in my platoon were hayseeds like me,but most were Hispanic or African Americans from Southern California. I think because I was so naive about race and so young these guys were pretty nice they treated me like I was their little brother. One day we were sitting around talking about where we were from. This one dude who was a bad ass asked me "Hey where you from?" . I said " I Da Ho" everyone laughed so I laughed too but did not understand what was so funny. Every now and then he would ask me and just bust a gut. Did not figure that one out for some time.

Since I barely seem to be able to muster much more than jogs and occasional tempos (any suggestion on how to get the fire back would be appreciated because I am pretty flat on most days), I'll post what I have Tom LeGan doing. I did run a hard 27:20 tempo of undetermined length up at Tilden Park on Saturday and jogged then lifted on Sunday, but the rest has been an "aggressively mediocre" mix of shuffling and jogging. ;)

For Tom at last Thursday's Los Gatos meet he didn't have time for strides as they ramped up the 800 start by about 15 minutes. Ended up running 2:04.6x but the meet director is a bit on the lazy end of things, and rounded up to a hand-time (2:04.7). Though it's a world-leader Tom and I had expected more.

As instructed had plenty left, so he jumped into the 400 - had him go out at 30 then cut loose to work on his kick, ended up at 57.4; he then also ran the 200 in 27.4. Post 200, Tom still felt good so he opted for the two-mile - first mile in 6:05 and the second mile in sub-5:00 for about an 11-flat mark. I guess we turned that meet into a glorified track workout but we would have liked a 2:00-flat-01 mark. Tom got a lot of work in so he's clearly fit. I'll work on his "pop" for the 800, and we're probably going to have him do one at the Los Gatos meet on July 12th prior to the July 17th attempt at the WR in the MIle at the Tamalpa meet. (It will be USATF sanctioned, Franklin Ruona is working diligently on that aspect).

Tomorrow is the Morgan Hill 5K - certified. He's hoping to go a ways under 16 minutes. Will keep you posted, as I figure someone has to be interested since he's in this age category and he's been running so well.

Mike Lundgren wrote:

Wednesday is our "Four on the Fourth" 4 miler, hilly, and looks to be warm and humid, so will take it a bit easy as we have 6 hours of work afterwards. Cannot work too hard in the heat, not worth it any more, when there's much more life to enjoy.

Mike, I was working that race today. If you were in line for packet pickup I was the guy yelling, "This is the line for packet pickup!" Hope you had a good result. I think I'm done with summer racing. I just hope it cools off by the Labor Day 5K.

Allen1959 wrote:

lucKY2b wrote:

Still not feeling road ready, so am opting out of the Bluegrass 10000. Pains me to do that but I see no reason, given where I'm at, to race this 7/4 thing.

How about ...

1) It would establish a new benchmark from which to improve

2) You can see a few old friends

3) It would allow some of the more humbly-talented runners a chance to finish ahead of you for a change

4) That cold beer will be all the better after 6.2 sweltering miles at "current race pace"!

Seriously, though, I understand exactly what you mean. Really difficult to be in a race when you're not where you could or should be. Hopefully the knee is just about healthy, and things continue on the upswing for you.

Having barely resumed running following my calf injury suffered the first week of May, I was not planning to run my local 4th of July race. But then I read Allen1959’s post giving the reasons to go ahead and race even if you’re not ready to perform well. With the forecast for unseasonably mild weather, I decided this morning to go ahead and run. It was my first race in the 60+ age group and it was really slow--41:40 for 5 miles, more than 3 minutes slower than my previous PW (although I haven’t run that distance in a couple of years). But nothing felt injured, I enjoyed getting out there and competing with the other runners who were running near my pace, and it was a rare treat to run a race on July 4 that was only 67 degrees with a dew point of 54 at the finish. I won the F6069 age group but would have been only second in my just-departed F5059 group.

I really hope I can get some speed back if I can ever get healthy enough again to train seriously. Serious summer is supposed to clamp down here starting this weekend, making that more difficult. I’m glad just to be out there competing, but I’d be happier if I weren’t so slow.

amkelley - Congratulations on your win in the new age group! And I wouldn't say it would have been "only good enough" to have placed second in your previous age group, especially noting they were 10-year groups, not five.

And also noting my 10K finish today was "only" good for second 50-59. (Actually, M55-59 was the age group, but the results showed three M55-59 crossing the line before the first M50-54)

Also, amkelley, it's great to hear that your recent half issues are much improved. I really admire your patience and perseverance to let it heal, and to continue logging all those bike miles.

It was very hot and humid here today. 9 am race start, so full sun. This week was the first really hot weather in two years, so no one is acclimated. And with my history in the heat, I ran very conservatively.

Actually, I was almost on goal pace at 5K, but my heart felt like it was beating erratically, so I really backed off. 50-second positive split for second half. Every time I tried to increase the pace, I felt that palpitation sensation again.

Better safe than sorry, but frustrating that the age group winner was only 8 seconds ahead. Aaargh.

Congrats, again, and have a great evening!