50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Thx Coyote yes that workout was tough but Friday’s was as well - 3200 on the track with direction to be 6:20 pace first 6 Laps followed by 6:00 pace for last 2 laps. I blew it somewhat and went 6:12p then 5:55p. Then 5x 150s at 800p with 45sec rest to wrap things up. Was harder than expected. My one excuse is that I had some gastro-intestinal something going on that left me delpleted before this session. This coming is time to toe the track racing lines. I’m tentative for a Tues All-Comer 800 but solid for a Sat 1500/800 double.

Be well all ye stiffer than 2x4 legged friends for life. YES this is my day x day nickname too. I know no such fluidity like 10-20-30 years ago. You just have to accept it and make the best of it. Right friends?

Questions to the veterans here:

My resting heartrate is declining in leaps, about one leap every year, from 62 bpm to 56 to 52 and now 46.

I

We have been thought that RHR are a function of genetics and aerobic training where genetics is the limiting part. I thought when hitting 52 that this was it, but it wasn't, and now; may I excpect even further drops?

Have my heart become bigger or stronger or maybe both in conjunction with the rest of the cardiosystem?

(Background: Turning 58, 40 years off serious training, but increasingly active last 3-4 years).

II

As I am running faster I sometimes feel a strain in my achilles. Wanting to be proactive I have startet to do heeldrops, moving my ankles before runs, and light stretching. Are there any other measures I may incorporate to avoid getting injured?

mo'pak,

In general most on this this thread are always fighting injuries. Not to minimize your current issues and they do seem worse than most of us. I would be doing much of same with the cross training. Have you looked at your diet? Maybe something is causing excessive inflammation. Oatmeal for me, in excess, wrecks my joints. Best of luck.

Same as the last few. High volume and a fun race. My friends were the organizers and they were completely inept. About 3k runners in beach sand. THey seemed to forget to check what tide it would be at race start. THe water was over my ankles at start. As you would expect, all the runners ran on the thin strip of dry sand which was cool at the start because I was in the front but it was 2 laps. Trying to run through 3krunners coming at you was interesting. Also, they forgot that we were supposed to run a partial 3rd lap. At this point I just stopped and told the organizers(friends) to run with me if they weren't sure. They debated for about 2 minutes and when nobody else had still finished declared me the winner.

The celebration after was incredible. Overall winners presentation, live music/dancers, and free food! My friends had nothing to do the anything after the race ended :)

TM= treadmilll

Date Acivity Duration AvgHR/Max Workout WO Duration Note

06-11--Walk Incline TM 01:46 123/136 None 00:00

06-12--Run TM-----------00:32 127/140 None 00:00

06-12--TM-Steep Incine 01:08 120/133 None 00:00

06-12--Run--------------00:39 133/140 None 00:00

06-13--Run Treadmill 00:45 140/170 C-Int&TH 00:24 14 min ints + 10 Th, ints 12.15 mph

06-13--TM-Steep Incine 00:20 115/129 None 00:00

06-13--TM-Steep Incine 00:50 118/128 None 00:00

06-14--Run 00:37 125/135 None 00:00 beach sand run

06-14--TM-Steep Incine 00:53 116/133 None 00:00

06-15--TM-Steep Incine 01:00 113/122 None 00:00

06-16--Run--------------00:20 114/120 None 00:00 beach sand run

06-16--Run--------------00:34 164/170 Threshold 00:34 Crazy stupid race with too many people. Won overa

06-17--TM-Steep Incine 01:12 117/124 None 00:00

06-17--Run--------------00:44 131/148 None 00:00

Hey Big Mango I think you might have been mixing me and this guy up.

I posted my training to show him not everyone on this thread is flying along running great times and training like they are in their 30s.

Like many 58 year olds I do have a few arthritic joint issues. A full adventurous life, lots of hard physical labour and 45 years of running leaves it's mark. I manage those issues ok normally.

My current issue is related to hamstring tendonopathy. I had a similar issue in the other leg in 2014. It is a slow grind to get the hammy tendon back to normal.

Currently it feels pretty good but I am reluctant to go back to any faster running (the trigger) so I am just enjoying a mix of hard hilly hiking/ running and various cross training to keep in shape.

Inspiration

https://trailrunnermag.com/video/watch-for-the-love-of-mary.html

Late check in here for last week. I ran 0 miles and was busy doing what masters runners do, which sometimes is other real life stuff that is more important than running. Monday and Tuesday my oldest son was staying with us while doing business here before heading back to NZ until September, and I was busy doing some things with him. Wednesday I probably should have run, but was busy organizing my construction tools and packing. Some brief family history here - my grandfather was a framer. My dad worked night shifts as a machinist to put himself through law school. When I was young I worked Summers as a rigger at a construction steel company in high school and college, before going to law school. My younger son got his undergraduate degrees in electrical engineering and economics (and ran track and XC, and worked part-time as a bike mechanic in the university bike shop), and later got an MBA and now is a private equity partner doing fancy deals all over the world. So we all had some exposure to construction work. He could not get a decent bid to rebuild a sunroom in his house in the SF Bay area (the best he got was a $30k bid for a half-baked window replacement solution). A couple of months ago he asked me if he ordered windows could we do the rebuild. I said sure. A week ago he told me the windows were about to be delivered. So Thursday my wife and I loaded all my tools in the car and drove 500 miles to my son's house. My son took Friday off work and over Friday, Saturday and Sunday we demolished the two walls of very old aluminum-frame, single-pane glass panels, and then framed two half walls, installed five 5'x6' double glazed vinyl windows, papered the outside so it was ready for stucco, installed six electrical outlets and dry walled the inside, and fixed a few structural problems along the way. With some serious assistance from our spouses we did the job for about $3k in materials and 3 days labor by a couple of knowledgeable amateur builders, plus $300 in quality Champagne and wine. Today we drove 500 miles back home dog-tired with a sense of accomplishment and after some real quality time with our son and daughter-in-law, carved out of their busy young lives. Now, back to running :>)

I don't know of any study of the genetics of slowing HR, though I have not searched on it of late (my background is in Exercise Science). I know my resting HR has dropped in the last years. Example was RHR of 60 when in my 30's, now is 52 at age 67, and I'm sure not any fitter than when at my fastest ! :) Nor am I any leaner.

My suspicion is that RHR drops with age, just as max HR does, but I am open to hear from others here.

I'd be very careful on heel drops, and also limit time in lower heel drop trainers. Gentle stretching should not be so bad, I check mine with simple rotations before getting out of bed, and a light walk before running.

Last couple weeks have been 28-29 mile weeks and one week ago Sunday was 6 x 1/4 mile at 1:52 average, on the road. Looking forward to USATF Nationals, though the first night could be very stormy weather, otherwise highs in the 80's isn't bad for the Midwest this time of year. Cheering on our friends (Courtney Frerichs and Coppinger) and anyone with Iowa connections, especially.

Mo'pak,

Sorry, I was mixing you up with another poster. Agree, we are all fighting our injury demons. Also think we are more aware of our issues compared to younger runners. At 51, can't hammer as hard but almost as hard. Going on three years now without a an injury that has stopped me from running but have been injured for three years :) 50% luck and the rest is adapting training to my current injury(s).

Workout friday on good old South Eugene man I love that place!

So lot of self doubt with a less than stellar opener but lots of excuses followed by lots of treadmill stuff and sand dunes to try and keep the early signs of pf from getting worse.

After a good treadmill workout on Tuesday without any pf hangover I decided to head to Eugene for a 1200. The track does not lie.

Warmup

200 44 easing into it ok

300 in 58 oh yea but the attachment point on my upper left hammy gave me some worry not a new one though.

R1 minute walk

800 in 2:40 high

78 high but that hammy was no happy so I eased up a bit

82 low felt like 1500 meter effort stopped out of caution hammy was respected

R2 minutes standing thinking about wanting to blast it you know dam the torpedoes off to injury pergatory but NO!

200 in 38.06 with the hammy tightening around a 100 meters was going to do a 400.

WAG 1500 5:0x with no hamstring issue maybe faster so 5 weeks left and on course hoping to be in 4:5x shape.

Hey Charlie. Thanks for posting this inspiring film. That's IT. That's why we will pursue The Runner's High for life.

KP

Do any of you old timers have any experience with running at the Huntsman Games in St George Utah? How is the heat? Do they run early or late in the day? It looks like track will run 3 days on October 15th through 17th.

Well, Here I am. It has been forever since being on here. Just a quick recap over the last 15 months. Had foot surgery March of 2017. Began training the following June. Got back in good enough shape to race the xc nationals in Kentucky finishing behind my teammate Joe Sherran. Began training harder and won the 60-64 at USA xc in Tallahassee in early Feb. Then caught a bad virus in Florida, I believe on the plane back home. Could not run for about three weeks. Took another few weeks to get going again. Ran well at Bloomsday. Then ran the masters half marathon champs in Ann-Arbor finishing behind a very good Roger Sayre (Coyote Montane) though I won the age graded. The majority of my training was long hard runs and long intervals as well as tempo runs. So though I felt strong all the way in that half, just did not have enough speed training to run any faster. Then a few days after returning from the half, I slipped and fell on my hip while fishing. Had to take a few more days off. Last week I got back up to full volume hitting 71 miles with a local 2 mile xc race followed by some 400's on the track. Everything feels good. I plan on running the masters outdoor track championships in Cheney. Only a three hour drive away. I plan on doing a couple of events including my first ever steeplechase. Want to see if that might be an event to run at the 2020 world champs when I turn 65. So needless to say, I have changed my training now to include some faster stuff. I will head to the track tomorrow for a repeat mile workout and then later in the week some fast 400's including going over a steeple barrier. Anyway, it's good to be back. You guys inspire me. Keep up the good work.

RB

After reading a few recent posts I read that some of you have hamstring problems. A few years ago I also suffered terribly from that same thing. I will make a couple of suggestions that worked for me. I visited a chiropractor. My hips were off so he adjusted me. He also found some scar tissue in the hamys that he removed with ART. I also limited my stretching. So I would suggest that you see a chiropractor that is certified in ART (Active Release Technique). Have him check for any leg length discrepancies. For the past few years now, my hamstrings have felt great. I just have to be careful with training at high speeds.

Best of luck.

RB

Happy with my 1500 today. 4:48.10. Had to go solo as the field was small. Splits went 75-79-76-57. I’m pleased in that last year’s seasonal best was 4:47-high and was run in 2 competitive races. Am super in Alan Webb plan to get me a few clicks lower at Spokane Nats July 29th a day after I turn 58.

KP

*Week 367*

Howdy, 50+ers! It's been a hot and humid week here in the Bluegrass. I'm happy to report a bit of progress, but still only made it 23 miles on 5 runs for the week. Log reads as such:

Sun: 5.6 mostly easy (8:36/mi avg) some hills made for effort

Mon: off

Tue: 4.1 @track, w/4x200 (48,45,42,42) hot!

Wed: 4.0 easy (9:13/mi) 95 degree heat index

Thu: off

Fri: 4.0 moderate-to-hard (7:51/mi avg)

Sat: 5.3 easy-to-moderate (8:16/mi avg)

I didn't even bother trying to run on Monday, it was so hot, but I took a long 4-mile walk instead (another couple of walks gave me about 9 addition walking miles.) Added some speed Tuesday with a few 200's just to get some turnover going. Not gonna lie, they taxed me on 200-m jog recovery. I was hoping to do 8, but I was gassed and overheating after just 4...I'm OK with it, considering I've not done any track work for the past couple months. Friday was a couple of short accelerations with a break in the middle to catch my breath. I'm continuing to work hard on the left knee. Some mobility is returning with intensive and deep use of the stick on the muscles just above the knee while having the knee fully bent. Overall, pain is reduced some, but still hurts to do 90 degree squat.

Props, KP, on a fine 1500! 63, welcome back! Amazing recovery post-foot-surgery, wish you the best on your age 65 goals. Quick note: though we all generally know who we are on the boards, we tend not to link names with handles unless (like me) we aren't trying maintain that thin veil of anonymity.

We had a slight respite from the heat yesterday, but it looks like it's gonna be another hot and humid week. Still carrying too much insulation, which is adding to the misery. Hopefully, I'll still get my miles in.

OK, that's it for me. Any more race reports? Sad to see the grandstands at Hayward getting torn down; in the name of progress, I suppose. C'est la Vie.

All the Best!

Nice one KP. Do you have a 5 week plan?

RB welcome back hope to see you in Cheney . The 1500 is getting more interesting. Hopefully If you enter the 1500 more sub 5 guys will follow. But the deadline is near:

http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/2018/USATF-Masters-Outdoor-Championships/Entry-Info.aspx

Date Individual Events Combined Events Relay

On-time deadline is 6/28/2018 at 11:59PM ET 1st event: $50

2nd event: $20

Each add’l: $18 $70 n/a

Late deadline is 7/5/18 at 11:59PM ET above fees, plus $50 per athlete n/a

Good week diary/log kinda long and hard to read

Next 4 weeks focus on Vo2 and buffering hydrogen ion;)s using the time trial pace 80

Week 7 June 17 3 runs for 35 minutes

June 17 15 to 20 minutes easy to semi hard in sand dunes did some hills worked up a sweat felt good

June 19 tuesday LT 10 minutes Vo2 5 minutes

warmup 90 minutes treadmill hills walking with a little jogging

workout 5 minutes at 6:31 R1 5 minutes at 6:07 R 1

goal was 4 minutes at 11.3(5:18 per mile) at 1:40 I felt sluggish so I changed the workout

5:18 1:40 R3 2:40 R3 1:20 HR 171 on all 3 last one felt easy go figure

1/4 1/2 1/4 with 3' recovery at goal race pace pretty easy workout

I still feel kind of sluggish on many of my workouts probably allergies

June 23 going to do a race type effort 1200 on track at South Eugene try for sub 4 even

200 44 300 58 R1 left hamstring attachment tightened 800 2:40 78 82 felt fine except for hamstring so I bagged last 400

R2 200 38.06 was going to finish with 400 but hs tightness got worse so done

hs still a bit sore and tight but on the mend

other bike 16 minutes tempo part of 90 minute standup bike ride

feeling really good except for the left hs

WAG 1500 5:0x feel good about 4:5x by July 28th

Last 4 weeks 6 workouts and a race maybe but not until July 12th 2 weeks out from goal race

the 6 workouts goals

1.Get to starting line

2.Maintain to slightly boost LT using CV pace intervals 2 x 5 minutes at 6 minutes per mile R1

3.Economy strength at 1500 pace sand dune hills short full R

4.Economy speed treadmill short hills until warmed up then one long interval at goal race pace but on hill converted

No Peak

I am not going to do the typical buffering stuff as my body is just not ready for this and I want to keep building for next year without a protracted recovery period. I am just going to keep chipping away at the rust cause there is some good metal underneath it all. Each layer exposes a weakness or old injury that I will deal with as part of the process of getting to my optimal level regardless of age and within reason chronice injury wise you can always have this goal being your best at what ever age or circumstance(s).

Onward!

M58 -- 5'11" 164 lbs

Last year (2017) -- 18:58, 3:07:23 marathon

This year (2018) -- 5:37.8 mile, 19:17 5K

Goal -- Defend M55-59 title in 15K (August)

Training -- 9-day cycle with Long Run, VO2max and LT workouts

June 18-24, 2018

Easy - 7.7 miles @ 8:17/mi

VO2 -- 2.3-mi warmup; 3 x 1-mile w/5-min recoveries 6:16, 6:16, 6:14; 1-mi cooldown

Easy - 10.0 miles @ 8:48/mi

Easy - 4.0 miles @ 9:25/mi

LR -- 17.1 miles @ 8:02/mi

Easy - 10.2 miles @ 8:09/mi

Off

WEEK TOTAL: 55.8 MILES

My most recent 5K pace was 6:13/mile, so the 6:15 average for Tuesday's mile repeats was a little disappointing. But not too too bad in the midst of two high-mileage weeks. Yesterday's recovery run was a mild progression, starting with a 10:43 mile, and finishing with 7:46, 7:40, 7:22, 6:37. So, a bit of quality there.

No weather issues here in Upstate New York. A little warm on Monday, but sweater weather the rest of the week. Next race is July 4th 10K. Looking for sub-40.

Have a productive and happy week!

last week I said I was betting on an 18:50 5k. I hope if any of you raced out to a casino to get a bet down that you took the over. 19:04 last night for 24th OA, 3rd M50-59 [race uses 10-yr. groups]. 20 sec slower than last year, though in an interesting [to me] pattern in that i coughed up 10 seconds each in first and last miles while running the same in second mile.

I was slightly ahead of someone I lost badly to in an April 10k, so maybe that's a good sign. very humid evening, and I felt as though I were competing well, but then again clock don't lie. At least there was some good beer-tasting after the race [part of the race's theme].

rest of week uneventful as I was pointing for this race and tapering:

M 1:10 with 1/2 of a normal set of hill repeats + 30:00 x-t

Tu 1:00

W 40:00

Th 40:00

F 30:00 x-t

Sa 40:00 incl. rolling road 5k 19:04

now to regroup and do some recreational stuff [incl. track mile] for about a month before launching 12 X 9-day plan leading to richmond marathon nov. 10

have a great week,

Dave