The top D3 team would probably finish 25 - 30. Doubt it would ever be top 20 or DFL.
The top D3 team would probably finish 25 - 30. Doubt it would ever be top 20 or DFL.
Running Fast and Slow wrote:
This is a little off topic, but I've wondered how much better D3 teams would be if they redshirted guys like D1 programs. Considering how much D3 focuses on development (seems like they haven't averaged even one frosh xc AA recently on the men's side), it could make quite a difference. Imagine if NCC still had Crain and Klein. Obviously this won't happen as most D3 schools don't have graduate programs, but it's interesting to think about.
NCC does redshirt people. Their dominant team in 2009 had Nate Hird as a 5th year senior. Last year Tim Hird competed as a 5th year, and this year Ryan Root is doing the same thing.
The WIAC is also known for 5th years. In recent history they had Connor Lonning, Phil Richert, Thomas Breitbach, Tim Nelson, Jeremy Kieser, David Stilin, Josh Kaul, Jared Brandenburg, Patrick Klein, Jason Garvens, Nathan Petesch, Sean Kutz, and Tyler Morey all finishing very high in the conference as 5th years, and most were All Americans. La Crosse in particular seems to have a number of 5th years every year, including on this year's team.
Crain wins Tulsa 15k in 45:32 over 2:10 marathoner Brett Gotcher. If Crain was still on the NCC team, D3 nats wouldn't even be a competition
Didn't Crain use all of his eligibility? If so, I don't think this is even a useful argument in the remotest sense.
Don't tell me how to live my life
moot point wrote:
Didn't Crain use all of his eligibility? If so, I don't think this is even a useful argument in the remotest sense.
It does in terms of painting a picture of how D3 guys can run against D1 guys. He ran 1 competitive 10k last year and ran 28:52. How much faster do you think the rest of those guys could run if they actually got in fast races out at Mt. Sac or Stanford? Everyone wants to get on this thread and post about track times comparison- look at D1 tffrs and almost every time that makes nationals in the distance events comes from one of those meets. And for D3 teams (most notably midwest since east coast at least have a few options like penn) don't have the opportunity to get into these races because of budget constraints.
Take Grand Valley- North Central easily beat them at oshkosh by 30+ points yet on paper, grand valley's prs are way better.
I'd say alot of posters are basing too much clout on track times when a guy like Crain proves that North Central guys COULD have much better PRS if they had the budget to go out west and chase times
D Free wrote:
DI running is a job. It is serious. It is professional. DIII is not. If you are running for Wisconsin, for example, you want to run against professionals. That is your benchmark. DIII runners who are as good as you? Who cares. What DIII crybabies interpret is a snub is really a DI program's preference for running against like-minded professionals.
I know very few d3 runners push their bodies to the limit like d1 runners do, but saying guys like John Crain don't treat it like a job and like he doesn't care about running professionally is just stupid. The kid ran 63:21 in Houston at 23 years old. At least half of Wisco grads can't do that.
Look at Will Leer too, he's living the dream and has a fantastic degree from one of the best colleges in the nation.
Foolishness wrote:
D Free wrote:DI running is a job. It is serious. It is professional. DIII is not. If you are running for Wisconsin, for example, you want to run against professionals. That is your benchmark. DIII runners who are as good as you? Who cares. What DIII crybabies interpret is a snub is really a DI program's preference for running against like-minded professionals.
I know very few d3 runners push their bodies to the limit like d1 runners do, but saying guys like John Crain don't treat it like a job and like he doesn't care about running professionally is just stupid. The kid ran 63:21 in Houston at 23 years old. At least half of Wisco grads can't do that.
Look at Will Leer too, he's living the dream and has a fantastic degree from one of the best colleges in the nation.
ya buddy d3 runners are only willing to train as hard as hser's; its got nothing to do with genetics or talent. d1 runners just try harder. Anyone not running D1 must be holding back. Anyone could make the NBA too if they only pushed their body like top D1 basketball players...