Are bun huggers dead?

Since when are high school students "young children"? As a society we are treating young adults like children, and we wonder why students are often less than responsible. Parents are far too comfortable getting in the business of coaches and AD's.

If the coach wants his team in buns, either wear them or join another sport/ club. For the love of God stop whining people.

I think what separates us is that for you, buns are about body image, and for me, they're about performance. You think throwers are excused wearing buns because they tend to be larger athletes; I think it's because they don't run, so the wind resistance and chafing avoidance issues that lead to buns being issued to runners don't apply to them. Your college might have been different but at mine, if throwers compete in relays or any other track events, have to wear bun huggers. Likewise if they participate in long jump, high jump or any other event where shorts could hold back their performance.

Being proud to be female and proud of our bodies isn't about showing a lot of skin, it's about wearing sports attire that is professional and helps us achieve the best performance possible for us as female athletes.

Pro-Choice. Girls, boys, women, men, hemaphrodites, gays, lesbians, switch-hitters, and undecideds should have the freedom to wear bunhuggers, boy shorts, split shorts, speedos, or whatever. Same story for medical reproductive procedures.

I coach a girl's XC team.

This is a really difficult subject amongst the girls.

We have our elite group of girls on the team who would not be opposed to wearing them. Honestly, for most of them they want to look like their favorite runners on the track and are not looking to draw attention to themselves from guys.

A couple of years ago their was a few girls that really wanted to switch the uniforms over to the briefs. It was really innocent. They just wanted a more serious look for a major meet. If they were all into it I might have gone along with it but the idea was dividing the team in half so I squashed it.

According to the rules in our state their uniforms have to match. So if some of them wear the "bun huggers" then they all have to wear them. I'm simply not willing to put the kids who are uncomfortable wearing them in that in that situation.

I guess being a father with daughters helps my perspective in understanding how girls feel about some things like this.

When they train it's different. They can choose to wear what they want. In the summer a lot of them run in their sport bras. Again, their motive is not to attract attention. They just want to stay cool. But they have a choice and some are not comfortable with the exposure.

Some of the other coaches around insist on their girls not running so exposed but I found if you don't make a big deal of it than nobody else will either and everyone just gets used to the idea. I know I'm getting a little off subject here but it's somewhat relevant.

this is unreal wrote:

Since when are high school students "young children"? As a society we are treating young adults like children, and we wonder why students are often less than responsible. Parents are far too comfortable getting in the business of coaches and AD's.

If the coach wants his team in buns, either wear them or join another sport/ club. For the love of God stop whining people.

If the coach wants his team in buns, he doesn't deserve to be a coach of a woman's team at the high school level (or any level in my opinion). I relish the opportunity to do battle with any coach or school over this issue. And, trust me, I'd go to the highest levels in the courts to win this battle for women everywhere.

Cate wrote:

I think what separates us is that for you, buns are about body image, and for me, they're about performance.

But they *are* about body image for a lot of girls. Not just me. A lot of girls feel very uncomfortable in buns.

Do you honestly believe that the drag caused by two extra inches of material will make a substantial difference in the athletic performance of your average high school girl? The girl who stayed up too late last night, or ate pizza with her friends an hour before the race, or repeatedly dogs the middle of long runs when I can't see them (I know it happens). There are SO MANY other things that can be done to improve performance that forcing girls into uniforms they are uncomfortable with to shave fractions of seconds off their 2-mile time seems ludicrous.

The only place I can see the performance argument potentially coming into play is if the top two spots in the Olympics or WCs were separated by 0.01 second and the winner wore bra+buns and the loser wore a singlet and racing shorts. Both have devoted years and years to being at the pinnacle of their athletic career and have trained and dieted to perfection. Yeah, then the loser might say "I wonder if I could have won had I worn buns."

Short of that, I don't buy the performance argument.

this is unreal wrote:

Since when are high school students "young children"?

They are not "young children," but they ARE legal minors. Even if they were not, there is the issue of coercion from an authority figure who controls access to institutional opportunities and resources.

(And kudos to both AAA and Cate for a civilized discussion.)

I understand you came to the decision you did for the best motives. Yes, it's possible that a few of the girls could have felt uncomfortable in bun huggers initially. But had you thought that maybe some other girls would have felt uncomfortable about having to run in shorts?

You've said that some girls wear sports bras in practice. One way you could have introduced mandatory buns for the girls who felt nervous about them might have been to introduce them for training first, so they could get used to them without a crowd or girls from other teams around. Just sayin'.

And as you admitted, if you don't make a big deal of it, nobody else does either and they just get used to it. If you'd just circulated an order form with a note saying from a certain date bun huggers will replace shorts and must be worn for both training and race meets, I'm guessing the entire team would be wearing them even now, happy and comfortable in their uniforms, probably performing better than they would have been in shorts.

If buns are about body image, it's because someone made an issue of it. For instance by giving them a choice, which means the girls who opt for buns are showing more skin than the rest. A while back I mentioned that my mom played intercollegiate indoor volleyball in the late 1980s when literally every girl on every team wore bun huggers, as did every T&F and XC team. She didn't feel self conscious about it, because the idea never occurred to her that shorts could be worn by female athletes.

I live in a state where we can get strong winds in the winter. If I go on a training run in looser clothing, I can tell you I sense it filling up with air and it getting harder to make progress. And in warmer, humid weather, I know that a sports bra and bun huggers let my body breathe better and I don't need to take on as much water and can go longer and faster before my blood sugar level drops and I slow right down. And I'm not that quick a runner.

Cate wrote:

I think what separates us is that for you, buns are about body image, and for me, they're about performance. You think throwers are excused wearing buns because they tend to be larger athletes; I think it's because they don't run, so the wind resistance and chafing avoidance issues that lead to buns being issued to runners don't apply to them. Your college might have been different but at mine, if throwers compete in relays or any other track events, have to wear bun huggers. Likewise if they participate in long jump, high jump or any other event where shorts could hold back their performance.

Being proud to be female and proud of our bodies isn't about showing a lot of skin, it's about wearing sports attire that is professional and helps us achieve the best performance possible for us as female athletes.

I can see where you are coming from and I might even agree with you at the college level. If I was coaching a college team I would pretty much assume that these uniforms for the women are pretty much a standard.

You need to think of this subject from the viewpoint of a adolescent girl.

As a high school coach I have 13 year olds on the team and some "social runners" who eventually take to the sport and become more serious. The 13-14 year old girls for the most part are very modest and are insecure about their changing bodies. For the older girls it's less of an issue.

Having a very successful program I don't btw agree that the split short hinder their performance in any way.

I agree with the more professional look that you were talking about and also feel that the kids should feel empowered and unashamed of their bodies but the fact is that so many of them are young (yes, still kids) and insecure with themselves. They might not even join the team over something like this.

So I think it is different at the high school level. Like you, I don't see it as a body image issue but the kids may view it differently. If you have noticed by the large amount of knuckleheads getting on here and posting their favorite bun hugger pictures there is a contingent of attention being drawn from boys / men towards female athletes wearing these uniforms. Some girls feel very uncomfortable about that. They are not dumb and know the attention they are drawing even if they do not want that kind of attention.

This is the problem I was having with the team. The kids who felt uncomfortable with them DID look at them from a body image standpoint. As a coach you have to be sensitive to that and do what is best for everyone. In the end they all wore shorts and the drama wheel went to a different topic. Yes, there is always some drama on a large girls team. This is unavoidable.

It's all about stepping outside of your own opinions that serve yourself and trying to understand and not discount other people's feelings. We all have trouble doing that including myself but it makes us better at handling issues like this one when we do.

[quote]Cate wrote:

But had you thought that maybe some other girls would have felt uncomfortable about having to run in shorts?

No, none of the girls felt uncomfortable wearing shorts they just wanted to switch over to bun huggers. There is a difference.

Also, I have to respect the parents. You can't require kids to wear bun huggers in practice. Doing so would probably get me fired. That's just reality.

Cate wrote:

If buns are about body image, it's because someone made an issue of it.

I disagree with this. Wearing fewer clothes in whatever setting will make people more body conscious. That's why many women are self-conscious in bikinis, and less so in one-pieces. How many times do we see "Firm up for summer!" articles in magazines? It's because we're not wearing pants and sweaters and coats anymore.

Revealing more skin in a public setting means people will see more skin, and you will be conscious of what that skin looks like. It has nothing to do with somebody "making an issue of it."

Seen Oscar Ponce lately? wrote:

And kudos to both AAA and Cate for a civilized discussion.

But of course, we're women! ;)

No, in reality I'm just really curious about the other side of this. As somebody so involved in the sport and coaching girls at the high school level, I do think it's important to get this right because it's a big issue for a lot of people, so I'm glad that we can have this discussion, even if it is on letsrun...

I shouldn't respond to the troll, but just because I said I believe women shouldn't be forced to adhere to a certain grooming style means you know all about my personal grooming preferences, right?

I support gay rights as well, but I'm not gay. (Although how would you know that from what I've written? Maybe I have a wife, not a husband! :D )

Good one!! It's called- Touche.

another average american wrote:

No, in reality I'm just really curious about the other side of this. As somebody so involved in the sport and coaching girls at the high school level, I do think it's important to get this right because it's a big issue for a lot of people, so I'm glad that we can have this discussion, even if it is on letsrun...

I agree with this. As crazy as it sounds this is a very important issue in our sport.

I honestly wish it wasn't an issue and for the most part I agree with Cate's attitude about it. But there are unavoidable reasons why I would never force this on a group of high school girls and those reasons are real.

There are times I tell my girls to not run in a sports bra in training when they are running through specific areas of town. Not because of them but because of their safety from idiots who have had a history of going after women running on the road in those areas. It sucks, and I don't like restricting them and drawing any attention to it but I look at the girls from a father's perspective. Again, a different conversation but relevant.

Boy shorts and similar styles but longer are the best thing to happen in track and xc for women. To train in regular shorts then have to run in what feels like underwear makes you feel like you are running naked. That being said, once i started running and my focus was elsewhere, they are really comfortable because you don't have the material flopping around when you are soaked with sweat.

But the boyshorts and those that are longer are the most comfortable and functional and you don't have to pull out the wedgie that forms until you are sufficiently sweaty.

women's volleyball has had a similar history. in the 80s, you wore long sleeves and buns. think about that combination! long sleeves, in a hot gym? with buns? they finally got functional and are now sleeveless with boyshorts.

buns have no performance benefit over shorts - they are just to look good. So if you think you don't look good in them, find something else you look better in, and go with it.

I'm a middle aged dad, and I don't think any hs xc girl's team should have buns as the mandatory uniform.

This is the strangest letsrun thread I've ever seen - from pictures of women in bunhuggers to a civilized debate between posters who actually seem to be women? That goes against everything I knew about letsrun. Kudos to all involved!

runn wrote:

Simoza wrote:

This should be mandatory for all female athletes:

https://showyou.com/v/h-Uh0Gh3PS7k7fodnC/this-aerobic-video-wins-everything?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=timeline

Good Lord that was absolutely awful. My eyes hurt.

Sorry, I meant this one: