Shalane and Kara

No, they were NOT overtrained. Seriously?

If I look up stupid in the dictionary, will I see a picture of you?

Have you ever considered the fact that you know nothing about running?

get read dude wrote:

Consistency wrote:You're everything I said you were and you've proved it by calling me names instead of rebuking my assertions.

Have a good day.

What assertions? That I am not coming to the defense of privileged males (e.g., G. Rupp) and somehow that makes my effort to defend the dignity of women less valid? Like I said, society is made by men for men. I'm not overly concerned about defending G. Rupp given the vast number of underprivileged women in this world. Mia culpa.

Nope. My assertion is that you're a sexist and that you play the victim card. You've proved it again in this post.

Consistency wrote:

Nope. My assertion is that you're a sexist and that you play the victim card. You've proved it again in this post.

I have my beliefs about men, just as you have your beliefs about women. Am I sexist? I guess that depends on your perspective. Are you sexist? From my vantage point, yes. One thing is for sure, I am not a victim- try as hard as you might to convince me so.

Good day again.

Both of them should get Salazar back as a coach immediately. Look at what Rupp and Farah did in the 10K. Their little girl power club is not competitive on the world stage. The Africans outworked them and out raced them on the marathon day that counts the most....the Olympic marathon.

get read dude wrote:

Consistency wrote:

Nope. My assertion is that you're a sexist and that you play the victim card. You've proved it again in this post.

I have my beliefs about men, just as you have your beliefs about women. Am I sexist? I guess that depends on your perspective. Are you sexist? From my vantage point, yes. One thing is for sure, I am not a victim- try as hard as you might to convince me so.

Good day again.

Please enlighten me to my beliefs about women.

Please explain to me how I am sexist when I support equal treatment for all people regradless of gender or race.

Please explain to me how you are not sexist since you believe that women deserve special treatment as evidenced by your assertion that Galen Rupp deserves to be treated differently that Shalane Flanagan and Kara Goucher because of his gender.

And yes, you play the victim card everytime you try to argue that women deserve preferential treatment based on some fallacy that modern society is "built by men for men" or whatever you want to call it.

djgylend wrote:

Shalane is probably capable of a sub 220 on a good day and a fairly fast course, and is more than capable of hanging with all but one or two of the east africans in a championship race, but really hasn't looked the same since Beijing.

I like Shalane and I think she still has a really bright future in the marathon seeing as she has only run 3 so far. But she has shown nothing that currently makes me think she can run under 2:20. Remember she is only a 2:25 runner right now. 5 minutes is a long ways. Maybe later on down the road, but definitely not right now.

Shalane could focus on the 10K and be a medal contender. Not sure why she chose to go to the Marathon with so much potential at 10K left for her. She had the best form of any of the top 10 runners. She looked like a track runner while many of the others looked less fluid. Part of competing in track is knowing which races are your best. I think even Shalane's inner circle may be questioning the move to the marathon so early in her career.

nn wrote:

Shalane could focus on the 10K and be a medal contender. Not sure why she chose to go to the Marathon with so much potential at 10K left for her. She had the best form of any of the top 10 runners. She looked like a track runner while many of the others looked less fluid. Part of competing in track is knowing which races are your best. I think even Shalane's inner circle may be questioning the move to the marathon so early in her career.

Mo money, mo money, mo money. I think it is a shame that an athlete feels the need to move to the marathon to maximize earnings but that is the reality.

Moeny. How could I forget about the money factor. I really liked her Olympic marathon result. Top 10 is excellent. I think she is a great runner who could have medalled in the 10K. I hope she does well regardless of the race she chooses to run.

joho wrote:

nn wrote:

Shalane could focus on the 10K and be a medal contender. Not sure why she chose to go to the Marathon with so much potential at 10K left for her. She had the best form of any of the top 10 runners. She looked like a track runner while many of the others looked less fluid. Part of competing in track is knowing which races are your best. I think even Shalane's inner circle may be questioning the move to the marathon so early in her career.

Mo money, mo money, mo money. I think it is a shame that an athlete feels the need to move to the marathon to maximize earnings but that is the reality.

Agreed, but I'm not sure why she couldn't have run the 10 in the Olympics and then still collected some cash in the marathon next year. I would think that having two Olympic medals would make her more marketable in whatever race(s) she chose to run in non Olympic years.

I know a lot more than you do obviously.

Something went wrong out there. Both Kara and Shalane had the same kind of cramping in their legs and backs.

Too much time in the weight room, and running 120-130 miles a week may not be what is needed to win a marathon.

The African's are toned and lean, with not a lot of muscle.

Stupid. Go look in the mirror.

get read dude wrote:

Consistency wrote:You're everything I said you were and you've proved it by calling me names instead of rebuking my assertions.

Have a good day.

What assertions? That I am not coming to the defense of privileged males (e.g., G. Rupp) and somehow that makes my effort to defend the dignity of women less valid? Like I said, society is made by men for men. I'm not overly concerned about defending G. Rupp given the vast number of underprivileged women in this world. Mia culpa.

Geez, talk about misandrogenous

Didn't appreciate the Galen bashing either, but everyone has eaten their words in his case. He proved all the doubters wrong. So I don't feel like I need to say much there.

"Critiquing" or questioning what an athlete does or his/her performance is one thing. But outright bashing and insulting is something else entirely. And to the tone of "it's the internet so I can say whatever I want with no repercussions" is infuriating when it is mean-spirited.

And for the guy who wondered why I hadn't posted anything in a few hours of my original post- I was doing other things in my life outside the INTERNET and didn't spend my whole night reading letsrun.com. Sorry.

More than those of you who think they should have placed higher or didn't spend enough time training because of commitments to sponsors, it angers me because I know the two runners themselves were disappointed at the end of it. It really hurt me to watch. And to have you all saying such crap in light of it was just disrespectful. Too much, too soon.

sub3over40 wrote:

Both of them should get Salazar back as a coach immediately. Look at what Rupp and Farah did in the 10K. Their little girl power club is not competitive on the world stage. The Africans outworked them and out raced them on the marathon day that counts the most....the Olympic marathon.

Couldn't agree more. Their failure was in thinking that training as a pair would be enough. It might've been, if one was the best in the world, much as Rupp benefited from Farah, and vice-versa. But when you have two runners, neither of whom can touch the elites (yet) training with each other, they're gonna plateau. Kara no doubt benefitted from Shalane, because the latter is better, but Shalane needed someone far, far better to push her more. Instead, she had a glorified groupie or cheerleader. They both fooled themselves into thinking they'd trained smart, when they really hadn't.

They should've seriously considered some training in Kenya, going some place to find stronger training partners, or at least, a tougher climate. Portland is too nice, to comfy. When I'm there to run, I worry I'll lose my edge, coming from the heat and humidity of Kansas City where I do the bulk of my training.

And they were left wondering what they did wrong, alternating bemoaning the tough course. They had no room for excuses. That course was no secret, and they had plenty of time to train for turns. Instead, they did only cursory turn training, and it showed as they were stomped when it really counted.

I hope they're disappointed in themselves. They should be.

This is not about medals or places. If they got 20th, I'd be fine with that, IF they had done all they could, and that was truly their best.

But it wasn't. They could've trained smarter, and raced smarter (like not leading the race like a couple of idiots who've never heard of African marathon strategy), and not employing team tactics (they always seemed separated from each other by a few other runners...they should've been in a tight pack like the Kenyans, helping each other out). And Shalane blew her shot by not keeping up with the Russian, who ran a great, glorious race.

Kara was not so bad...for being a "2nd rate 1st rate" elite, she did better than I thought.

But Shalane utterly blew it. She had all the tools to be on the medal stand. But she trained weak, and raced weaker. She has only herself to blame.

get read dude wrote:

Consistency wrote:You're everything I said you were and you've proved it by calling me names instead of rebuking my assertions.

Have a good day.

What assertions? That I am not coming to the defense of privileged males (e.g., G. Rupp) and somehow that makes my effort to defend the dignity of women less valid? Like I said, society is made by men for men. I'm not overly concerned about defending G. Rupp given the vast number of underprivileged women in this world. Mia culpa.

Pics of Mia culpa !

quit being a chode, your argument is weak.

get read dude wrote:

Consistency wrote:

Nope. My assertion is that you're a sexist and that you play the victim card. You've proved it again in this post.

I have my beliefs about men, just as you have your beliefs about women. Am I sexist? I guess that depends on your perspective. Are you sexist? From my vantage point, yes. One thing is for sure, I am not a victim- try as hard as you might to convince me so.

Good day again.

Obviously, you know nothing more than anybody on this board and more than likely, a lot less.

Goucher ran close to her potential but your 3:30 marathon experience tells you it's the coach.

How did she get 3rd in Houston with so little time to train and coming off an injury? Ummm.....a little help for ya, the coach!!!

At least 2 posters mentioned that, but your "no response" proves that you are a moron. Too much time in the weight room? Wow, you are friggin stupid!

Both of these runners are full of excuses, yet claim to have trained harder than ever before in their lives. They complained about the narrow streets and the turns. Was this marathon race course a secret? NO.

Actually, they could have set up a similar race course in Portland and practiced on narrow asphalt streets and turns. This race played out perfectly for them, e.g., rain, slow first half, asphalt streets. Tiki Gelana of Ethiopia probably doesn't train in the rain or on asphalt streets. Gelana fell down during the race, but she found a way to win in record time.

Their coach, Jerry Schumacher, looks foolish.

Early in her career? Shalane is already 31 years old. She'll be 35 in Rio in 2016. She is not in the early part of her career anymore. Gelana is only 24 years old as a contrast.