Meb 63:11, Hall 65:39, Smith 68:37

agreed! A 2:04 marathoner should be able to go out and tempo at 450 pace any day of the week. I know he was hurt.... His past 2 performances were slower than tempo pace....not a positive sign....but I am still hoping he pulls it togther...he DOES NEED A COACH!!

20 Second PR wrote:

Hall talked about how half marathon training is different from marathon training

Funny thing is it's really not. Under a Canova-type system, it only takes a few small changes to shift from marathon specificity to HM or even 10k. See his guys banging out fast 10ks within weeks of quick marathons.

But Hall has no system at all. OK, he has god's system. And god chose to inflame his plantar fascia and hamstring. Goddamn!

Bob Dobbs wrote:

The further removed you are from your fastest track times, the slower your marathon times will be.

That's held true for just about all the fastest marathoners since Shorter. Rodgers, Seko, Salazar, Steve Jones, Geb, Sammy -- all ran their best marathons within a year or two of their best 10,000.

It's hard to know what people like Khalid or Makau could have run for 10,000 when they were in peak marathon form because they rarely ran on the track.

Hall would probably struggle to break 29:00 right now. He's not even world-class at 10,000. Unless he can approach his 5,000 or 10,000 PRs, it's highly unlikely he'll ever get close to his best marathon times again. He's neglected his track racing for far too long.

Aghast wrote:

You're analysis is ridiculously naive.

No. He's ridiculously accurate. And you can't spell.

I think MB posters on LetsRun really struggle to come to terms with the fact that Ryan Hall really doesn't owe them anything.

People can be frustrated with his faith, his lack of track racing, or his (effective) absence from any race shorter than marathon distance, but the simple fact is that he earned his spot on the US Olympic marathon team his way on his terms. Here, he's a victim of his own success. If some no-name runner disappeared into the back woods of California for 5 months at a time and just ran and prayed, then came out and ran 2:09:30 for second at the Olympic Trials after going out in 2:06 pace--that man would be a LetsRun hero!

Hall has been injured since before the trials. He's made no secret about his struggles with Plantar Fasciitis both before and after the trials, but he's also said that he's effectively 'trained through' these periods. The injury--more than fitness--was probably the limiting factor in San Diego. Hall's key to success has been his ability to stay (relatively) injury free through most of his career, which has effectively allowed him to run more miles than almost any other runner in the US. Look at the old LetsRun interview with him from high school--he was effectively doing marathon training then!

http://www.letsrun.com/highschool/hall.html

Looking forward, you don't need to be track sharp, but you do need a little bit of work faster than marathon pace. We know that, he knows that, it's a matter of getting healthy enough to do the higher end work. If he can get healthy, then he can work the "speed" sessions in time for London. It's still over two months away. If not, then his limiter won't be fitness, but injury.

tim21bert wrote:

If some no-name runner disappeared into the back woods of California for 5 months at a time and just ran and prayed, then came out and ran 2:09:30 for second at the Olympic Trials after going out in 2:06 pace--that man would be a LetsRun hero!

Hey, fair point.

rupp-certified saladbar wrote:

Bob Dobbs wrote:

The further removed you are from your fastest track times, the slower your marathon times will be.

That's held true for just about all the fastest marathoners since Shorter. Rodgers, Seko, Salazar, Steve Jones, Geb, Sammy -- all ran their best marathons within a year or two of their best 10,000.

It's hard to know what people like Khalid or Makau could have run for 10,000 when they were in peak marathon form because they rarely ran on the track.

Hall would probably struggle to break 29:00 right now. He's not even world-class at 10,000. Unless he can approach his 5,000 or 10,000 PRs, it's highly unlikely he'll ever get close to his best marathon times again. He's neglected his track racing for far too long.

Aghast wrote:

You're analysis is ridiculously naive.

No. He's ridiculously accurate. And you can't spell.

Ritz is a counter argument