The fastest runner in the 1973 NCAA XC Champs

Jon Cross - I've never met you, but used to hear a lot about you when I was in high school. I didn't personally know your father, but knew who he was as he taught at Allen Park HS when I was there. His classroom was next to my math teacher, Loso. Loso used to talk running with me in class; as I was the school running geek. He used to hear stories about your running from your proud father and passed them on. You were a great runner from what I recall!

My senior year of high school cross country (1974) was back when schools still ran lots of dual meets. We ran eleven of them that year. One of our two dual loses was to the Bellevile Tigers, coached by...Gordon Minty.

bump - more stories are waiting to be told

Minty story

Gordon had traveled from Michigan to Bakersfield to run in the AAU meet in the 3 and the 6 mile. As I recall he dropped out of the 3 mile but stayed in the six. He blew everyone away on the last lap and won going away in 27:20 I think. He was an 'average' looking (form) runner when keeping pace with pack etc. But when he sprinted he was (as are many who have 'that gear') a sight to see. He almost looked invincible ... I think that year was the beginning of his big jump into the forefront.

Gordon's influence on his teammates needs to be shared: he was a steady, no-nonsense guy that piled up the mileage. Running a lot of miles was still relatively new and those of us that could manage it, gradually upped our miles over 100. My first 100 mile week came as an 18, almost 19 year old. This was accomplished by adding a morning run.

He was no-nonsense but he knew what was important so, in his own dry way, lent humor to occasions when warranted. Some of this came out when the two of us went for a walk around the NCAA course at Terre Haute in 2002. We were there early to work the meet so we took a walk around the outer loop. Our conversation bounced all over the place; I asked him how he got started in running, we talked over old races etc. We enjoyed the painted comments in the course grass about teams & individuals. At the top of the loop, the north end we came to a Y where women & men split for the 1st time. One arrow said "Men' one direction and another said "Boaz' in the other direction. Now, I don't care who you are, THAT was funny!

To refresh memories, Boaz Cheboiywo had taken a wrong turn in the MAC conference meet a few weeks before. He'd been leading by a fair amount. It ended up costing EMU the meet and he was pretty unhappy. He says he was misdirected and officials say he wasn't. I don't know. Anyway, here it was 3 weeks later and some sharpies had siezed on Boaz's wrong turn which had played out at length here on Letsrun & offered him his very own turn. Gordon & I had a good laugh and thought of rubbing it out but left it alone.

EMU took 3rd as a team that day.

I was told (by him) that he had a 9 mile run ('nine'?) he ran every morning. Wanted consistency he said.... every morning. Any 'truth' to that?

Also was he a 'A' team/top tier guy from the get go @ EMU? understanding their were injuries and illness that he contended with fairly early on.

scott,

i think you were lucky to have a tough brit around to give you a different perspective about running. at eastern michigan you had a great coach and environment, something i believe even in the american boom, not that common.

no one,

john goodridge told me that he and his wife francie would be out for their morning run and every day they would met gordon on the same hill. i don't know if gordon was running 9 every morning but it does not seem unlikely.

this thread is "good stuff". thanks all.

We didn't have very many different directions we ran in so I think I know which loop GM ran...it was longer than 9 from campus but probably about that from his place west of campus. In summer '73, Gordon & I hooked up to run regularly. Still fit from track, each of us ran good mileage and did one track workout per week. At the same time, GM was on the fence to make the Welsh team for the Commonwealth Games to be held downunder in Jan '74.

Each week he'd have a different tale to tell how the process to make the team was going. One evening, he was particularly worked up and talked steadily, w/frustration, for about 4 miles. In between breaths he said, "Boy, I'm tired," which made me laugh and say, "I'm not surprised since you've been talking for the past half hour and I haven't said a thing." He learned a couple weeks later he'd made the team (5000m) then he proceeded to train thru the season, pointing for the CGames. He was very fit when he fell then recovered to place third in Spokane in Nov '73.

The CGames hosted some bodacious races: Filbert Bayi & John Walker in the 1500m, Dick Tayler in the 10000, Ian Thompson & Jack Foster in the marathon. In the restroom at the Games, GM was forced to ask the guy in the next stall for some TP. In the next stall: Ron Hill.

friends: Have you all gone to this website:

http://www.racingsnailclub.com/

unbelievable videos-almost every great distance race in the history of the world-Bannister's 1st sub4; Bannister vs. Landy in BC Commonw. games, Ryun's WR 3:51.1; the 5 and 10K at Munich.

I was at these games-the 10K is still one of the great races of all times-Viren was unheard of, fell down early, Bedford ran his usual crazy race-first 5K was nearly world record and still 5-6 guys in pack-with his trademark (I guess we call it "signature" now) long hair and black socks. Viren got up, fought back, and won; then of course came back to win teh 5K too.

also Wottles 800 (dead last at 400-I was standing with a bunch of brits in the stands and they were really beatin' me up 'cause I'd been bragging about how great Wottle was-and then I got the upper hand for the last 400, of course!).

HIghly recommend the site.

So Far wrote:

Another bit of Gordon Minty trivia is that he was the last person to qualify for the 1984 Olympic Marathon trials. He ran a couple of seconds under the 2:19:04 qualifying standard on the last day of qualifying. Talk about cutting it close.

While going thru NRDC News of May '84 discoverd GMinty ran 2:19:03 at Boston...not long before the OTrials that year. A total of 201 guys qualified for the '84 OTrials w/the 2:19:04 standard. Over 260 women qualified at 2:51:10. Standards were established based on the 100th fastest time in the year before the qualifying period started.

I noticed in your thread that Charlie Maguire passed away in 2006...hadn't heard that. I ran against Charlie a few times and he was TOUGH!! Sorry to hear that he passed away; what were circumstances if you know? Thanks

Steve Hoag wrote:

I noticed in your thread that Charlie Maguire passed away in 2006...hadn't heard that. I ran against Charlie a few times and he was TOUGH!! Sorry to hear that he passed away; what were circumstances if you know? Thanks

Wow! I missed that. I'd like to know the circunstances too. Charlie was the first person I knew who questioned whether Prefontaine ran as few miles as he was reported to have done.

HRE wrote:

Steve Hoag wrote:

I noticed in your thread that Charlie Maguire passed away in 2006...hadn't heard that. I ran against Charlie a few times and he was TOUGH!! Sorry to hear that he passed away; what were circumstances if you know? Thanks

Wow! I missed that. I'd like to know the circunstances too. Charlie was the first person I knew who questioned whether Prefontaine ran as few miles as he was reported to have done.

***are you sure you're not thinking of Charlie McMullen, the great runner from Rochester NY, who was a sub 4 miler at Missouri, a X-C All American and ran a 215 marathon later in a 'nothing' race, with no 'names' in Orange Co. Ca. back in the late 70s. He died a few years ago of some form of cancer; sad to report, in case you hadn't heard.

charlie mcguire and charlie mcmullen both are gone.

welcome to steve hoag. one of the countries best marathon runners in the mid 70's.

I don't know that there are too many almost-50-year-old women who wade through all the blather on this board, but this one has been great fun for me. I started running in the 70s in Ann Arbor and was a running geek from day one (I think I still have somewhere a program from an indoor CCC meet at EMU filled with my writing down of splits and results). Some teenage girls swoon over rock stars--me, I was in heaven when our high school was out on the Huron Hills golf course and the Michigan team came over to do their workouts. Except for my coach, there were no female role models back then, so after Francie, I wanted to be just like Minty and Donakowski and Meyer (and actually, Donny Hubbard, too). Thanks for all these great stories.

yes, I too am sad to hear about Charlie McGuire. He and Pat Mandera were very close in talent, and often were neck and neck. In fact, he and Pat went head to head in NCAA 6 mile in '74 in Austin, and McGuire beat him in kick (Pat had little or none, and was fond of throwing in a 62 or 63 in mid race to decrease chances that it would come down to final 220-didn't work that time).

Hayeser Hoosier wrote:

yes, I too am sad to hear about Charlie McGuire. He and Pat Mandera were very close in talent, and often were neck and neck. In fact, he and Pat went head to head in NCAA 6 mile in '74 in Austin, and McGuire beat him in kick (Pat had little or none, and was fond of throwing in a 62 or 63 in mid race to decrease chances that it would come down to final 220-didn't work that time).

Charlie was the antidote to anyone who whines (and there are many) about their "lack of talent" holding them back. I don't think that Charlie could have run a 55 quarter all-out if he wanted to, but in a race he could hit 56, and he did it many times. We used to say that if you could combine Greg Fredericks body with Charlie Maguires head you'd have the perfect runner. We were right, they now call him "Kenesia."

RIP Charlie.

Hayeser Hoosier wrote:

yes, I too am sad to hear about Charlie McGuire. He and Pat Mandera were very close in talent, and often were neck and neck. In fact, he and Pat went head to head in NCAA 6 mile in '74 in Austin, and McGuire beat him in kick (Pat had little or none, and was fond of throwing in a 62 or 63 in mid race to decrease chances that it would come down to final 220-didn't work that time).

That was in 1973, not Austin but another hot place, Baton Rouge.

another war story

I had moved to Santa Barbara after I graduated college - seeking some time to really see what I could do with the running deal. 3 x hairline fractures took care of that - but thats another story. There was a bit of a track migration there for various reasons i.e., Jim Ryun, Sam Adams decath group, the ever dapper Fred LaPlante, future american hurdle record holder and Olympian Debi Lansky, who eventually married dapper man then ??? and Mike Hazilla to name a few (that I can remember). Mark Winzinreid would come into town for a couple a weeks at a time.

Early on there I was in very good shape and somehow got hooked up with Mike Hazilla for some workouts - long runs. I didn't know personally just via the grapevine and a TFN or two. I doubt he knew me at all. Anyway we go out for a ~12 or so and we start doin that thing - you know the workout is morphing into a bit of 1 on 1 duel. So I pulled away and he came in - spent.

A week or two later off we go on another long run. (Now we barely knew each other) Anyway we're cruisin along and its about 2 miles from our finish point. He flies past me and grunts like a jedi warrior - basically sayin - "I mock you, west coast weasel! and were I a mind to - I shall speet in yur face" (which I felt like too.) He actually did say something but I can't remember it - just making sure I was put in my California place.

Mike had run a 2:18 which at the time was a very promising time - not too many were breaking 2:20 as I recall. Warriors don't/won't die easily.

Moral of the story: Don't mess with Michigan.

Mike & Ron Warhurst roomed together for a bit in Ypsi in the early 70's. Think Mike was working on an advanced degree at the time. Saw him at a meet at UMich last May. He's looking good and is an instructor at American U in econ. He was scheduled to run the 1500m at the USATF Masters Champs in '06.

Mike ran some fast marathons back in the day, including a 2:16 on Belle Isle in Detroit in '71.

While digging, found the '68 NCAA cross results:

1. Mike Ryan USAF 29:16

2. Steve Stageberg Geo 29:28

3. Art Dulong HCross 29:39

4. Grant Colehour EKU 29:46

5. Gerry Hinton SIU 29:50

6. Jerry Richey Pitt 29:52

7. Art Coolidge KSU 29:53

8. Tom Donnelly Vill 29:55

9. Sid Sink BGSU 29:58

10. Carl Hatfield WVU 29:59

19. Frank Shorter Yale 30:07

22. Dick Buerkle Vill 30:09

30. Howell Michael W&M 30:15

34. Steve Hoag Minn 30:21

36. Chris Mason Vill 30:21

39. Don Kardong Stan 30:28

Team- 1. Vill 2. Stan 3. SCal

AAU

1. John Mason FtHaysSt 30:34

2. Art Dulong HCross 30:44

4. Amby Burfoot CConnAA 30:53

5. Bill Clark Quant 30:58

7. Ken Moore OreTC 31:00

12. Grant Colehour EKU 31:33

17. Dick Buerkle Vill 32:03

23. Pat McMahon OkBaptist 32:26

27. Bill Scobey FtSamHous 32:44

37. Herb Lorenz 33:09

38. Lowell Paul UCTC 33:10

44. Gary Muhrcke Millrose 33:18