This is a stupid thread but I’ll play along. I believe in God-incidences, but I can’t imagine God wanting to save Trump but not one of his supporters. Luck happens. Fortuitousness happens in life.
It’s not that liberals are arguing a God-incidence or not. It’s that fully 1/3rd of them think Trump staged the shooting. And a great many of them have thought to themselves they wished the assassination had been successful. I know several. Some verbalized on social media. That is a sickness in and of itself. There is something wrong with a person like that. And it may be that their lives are devoid of God and a true moral compass.
Without God it isn't possible to have true moral compass.
Without God morality is completely subjective.
The bible is claimed to be the word of god. There's plenty of objectionable morals in the bible. Slavery, beating you slaves is okay, women as property of their husband, etc. If you believe all of that stuff then we have bigger problems.
But if they are not your morals then you've already subjectively made your own moral compass. You can't pick and choose which god-provided morals you adhere to and then also say without god there can be no morals.
Ok, let's say the universe was made by a creator. Where did the creator come from? Did the creator just pop into existence out of nothing?
Why is it more plausible that a creator popped out of nothing than the universe?
Didn't you hear? The creator lives outside of time and space! But TRUST ME, he's real and I've felt his presence!
I think the problem stupid people like yourself have with this is you're not clever enough to disentangle the idea of a creator from the human created religions.
The universe having a creator is an entirely different argument than Jesus being the son of God or Mohammed or Joseph Smith being personally privy to that God's intentions.
Society determines what is moral in the secular world.
If your society thinks rounding up all the Jews and killing them is a good thing then it is subjectively moral to round up all of the Jews and kill them.
If your society thinks cannibalism is moral then cannibalism will viewed as moral.
You have not thought about any of this you're just married to the ignorant opinion you started with.
If god (and the people that believe in him) think being homosexual is a sin, they're f*cking dicks.
Didn't you hear? The creator lives outside of time and space! But TRUST ME, he's real and I've felt his presence!
I think the problem stupid people like yourself have with this is you're not clever enough to disentangle the idea of a creator from the human created religions.
The universe having a creator is an entirely different argument than Jesus being the son of God or Mohammed or Joseph Smith being personally privy to that God's intentions.
The fact that you put Smith up there shows are one of those nutjob mormons. Congrats on being even more of a freak
Didn't you hear? The creator lives outside of time and space! But TRUST ME, he's real and I've felt his presence!
I think the problem stupid people like yourself have with this is you're not clever enough to disentangle the idea of a creator from the human created religions.
The universe having a creator is an entirely different argument than Jesus being the son of God or Mohammed or Joseph Smith being personally privy to that God's intentions.
So do god and the creator live together in The Neighborhood of Make-Believe, outside of space and time and reality?
I think the problem stupid people like yourself have with this is you're not clever enough to disentangle the idea of a creator from the human created religions.
The universe having a creator is an entirely different argument than Jesus being the son of God or Mohammed or Joseph Smith being personally privy to that God's intentions.
So do god and the creator live together in The Neighborhood of Make-Believe, outside of space and time and reality?
According to the Big Bang Theory time did not exist prior to the big bang.
Society determines what is moral in the secular world.
If your society thinks rounding up all the Jews and killing them is a good thing then it is subjectively moral to round up all of the Jews and kill them.
If your society thinks cannibalism is moral then cannibalism will viewed as moral.
You have not thought about any of this you're just married to the ignorant opinion you started with.
If god (and the people that believe in him) think being homosexual is a sin, they're f*cking dicks.
You have not thought about anything.
It's actually an interesting question to ponder what things are normal today that will be seen as immoral by future generations. Some are fairly good guesses: factory farming, wealth inequality, fossil fuels. But there's obviously some things that we don't have data on yet. Keeping pets? Consequences of farming certain produce?
If god (and the people that believe in him) think being homosexual is a sin, they're f*cking dicks.
You have not thought about anything.
It's actually an interesting question to ponder what things are normal today that will be seen as immoral by future generations. Some are fairly good guesses: factory farming, wealth inequality, fossil fuels. But there's obviously some things that we don't have data on yet. Keeping pets? Consequences of farming certain produce?
It's actually an interesting question to ponder what things are normal today that will be seen as immoral by future generations. Some are fairly good guesses: factory farming, wealth inequality, fossil fuels. But there's obviously some things that we don't have data on yet. Keeping pets? Consequences of farming certain produce?
Fossil fuels will be regarded as immoral?
Jesus Christ....
You people are absolutely delusional.
lol you fault people for lacking the ability to believe that "magic sky man" started the big bang but you can't do a basic hypothetical regarding advancements in energy.
It's actually an interesting question to ponder what things are normal today that will be seen as immoral by future generations. Some are fairly good guesses: factory farming, wealth inequality, fossil fuels. But there's obviously some things that we don't have data on yet. Keeping pets? Consequences of farming certain produce?
Fossil fuels will be regarded as immoral?
Jesus Christ....
You people are absolutely delusional.
Not quite, but close. 200 years ago there wasn't a big issue with using whale oil. Pretty clearly immoral by today's standards. In 150 years, if global warming has continued as it's predicted to, will the situation be so dire that use of fossil fuels is considered immoral? It's not hard to imagine a world where sea levels rise, weather gets more extreme, and less impactful energy sources proliferate. It's also possible that none of that happens, that's why we don't know.
But sure, looking back at history and pondering the future possibilities is delusional. Better to stick your head in the sand.
If we are going to operate under the assumption that God can use supernatural powers to help Trump escape the assassin's bullet, then you also need to entertain the possibility that Trump is the antichrist and possesses supernatural powers that would allow him to protect himself from an assassin's bullet. The antichrist is the false prophet, the "deceiver", an earthly "tyrant and trickster".
Trump has cheated death before. He had a severe case of COVID at a time when people in far better shape were dying on ventilators. His blood oxygen levels were reported to have dropped to 86%, which was generally knocking on death's door for COVID victims. But he survived.
Trump also has been able to evade the law in a way that defies explanation. The US Supreme Court took an unprecedented view on official immunity that makes it almost impossible to prosecute Trump for his attempts to subvert the 2020 election results. Judge Cannon ignored decades of legal precedent on the appointment of special counsel to dismiss the case against Trump over stuffing boxes of classified documents all over Mar a Lago.
I’m no fan of Trump’s, and his persona and shenanigans encourage me to vote for a guy like RFK, Jr., but do you really believe this nonsense? You come off as a butthurt lib. Or are you simply making the point that believing in God is as silly as believing Trump is the devil? I’m genuinely curious.
To me, it’s not so important to frame the debate as a creator versus an organically created universe. The question is, IF something exists outside the parameters of time, space, and matter as we understand them, is it really possible to explain everything away using physics and mathematics? To me, the answer is no, but that is a matter of faith in and in the realm of religion/philosophy.
I think I've made it clear that I believe god saved Trump from assassination. That's what I started the thread with, and then questioned what liberals like yourself believe. Then you started talking yourself in circles, strangely admitting, on the one hand, that you know nothing and have no opinions, while also clairvoyantly telling me what I believe on the other. And you did all that while somehow proclaiming you're smarter than everyone else you respond to.
That's pretty much a summary of this discussion with you. Do you believe that's an accurate summary? Do you even know whether or not you believe it's an accurate summary?
So you believe that a higher power was watching the rally? You believe that the higher power decided to let the alleged assassin shoot some bullets? But the only one the higher power was really concerned about was Trump? This higher power thought it would be OK if Trump were grazed by a bullet on the right ear? The higher power pretty much decided to be a passive spectator except for his intervening on behalf of Trump? You must really be the village idiot.
The primary arguments from liberals, apart from name calling and incomprehensible twisted logic (see Oafie above), appear to be (1) god plays a zero sum game -- if he saved Trump, then he must have affirmatively killed the other guy, (2) god's motives and reasons can be fully understood, and (3) god has emotions like people do.
Arg (1) - This makes no sense. It is apparent from a review of ALL the facts that a divine miracle saved Trump. Trump even said he felt god save him. People in the actual crowd actually saw the miracle. Wouldn't Trump and the crowd know better than commentators on the internet as to what actually happened? Why would they lie about such a thing, knowing they would face endless insults form liberals? And what does ANY of that have to do with some other person who was shot? People get shot by people every day. God is not responsible for that. That's not even an issue here.
Arg (2) liberals throughout this thread (see Oafie above) presume and project what god must have been thinking. That is presumptuous and frankly ridiculous. You can't possible know what the creator of the universe is thinking. All you can do is witness His actions and draw reasonable conclusions as to what happened.
Arg (3) again, you can't project your own angry emotions onto god. You have no idea what god was thinking or how he felt when he saved Trump from being murdered at the hands of a misfit terrorist who had clear motives. God's reasons are not for you to try and consider. It's beyond you.
How do you liberals explain what happened? It was literally impossible for Trump to survive that attempt on his life, yet here he was days later giving a speech before millions. He even said himself that there is no way he would be alive without god's hand.
There's literally no such thing as coincidents, and no such thing as accidents. Inexplicable things don't just happen because of "luck." They happen for a reason.
It is easy to explain: Trump turned his head. The shooter missed. It is very hard to hit a human in the head from that distance. So the intervention of a deity was not necessary.
Considering I don't think for one minute Trump has any real belief in God. Where in his past prior to 2015 is it ever mentioned? He has been in the public eye for decades. While one can be religious and not attend church regularly, there is no indication of him ever doing this.
I agree that there are no "accidents". Two humans made decisions that affected the outcome. The turning of the head and the poor marksmanship or patience. But there is such a thing as "luck". Every roll dice? Ever play roulette? Poker has an element of luck. Being born to your parents is a bit of luck as well.
Didn't you hear? The creator lives outside of time and space! But TRUST ME, he's real and I've felt his presence!
I think the problem stupid people like yourself have with this is you're not clever enough to disentangle the idea of a creator from the human created religions.
The universe having a creator is an entirely different argument than Jesus being the son of God or Mohammed or Joseph Smith being personally privy to that God's intentions.
Real question: Functionally what is the difference between believing there is a creator separate and unrelated to world religions and not believing in the creator? It's definitionally impossible to disentangle the characteristics of the creator without religion.
A belief in a creator of the universe who created and then went away forever is tantamount to a belief in no creator.
The part of my post that says liberals debate that god saved Trump from assassination is true. You proved it. You're a liberal and you debate it. Am I right? You can't explain how Trump survived, but you are absolutely certain it wasn't due to god. Right?
I am NOT certain of much but of anything. I am not sure it was an assassination attempt. I am not sure how Trump survived it if it was an assassination attempt. There are many things I cannot explain. But I will say that your IQ is not very high.
If a shot whizzing past his head was not an assassination attempt from a guy who climbed onto a roof with a rifle was not an assassination attempt, then nothing is. This was not a hunting accident where Trump was traipsing through the woods during hunting season (I wonder if Trump has ever been into real woods) and a hunter mistook him for game.
You're not sure it was an assassination attempt and you're calling other people low IQ.
The irony is delicious.
Almost nobody knows if it was an assassination attempt. The smartest people in the world are the ones who admit they cannot be sure. But you fools are always overconfident.
You are dense. So it was an accidental shooting? They guy's gun just went off? Oh and what was he doing on the roof?
Next time you ripoff Dostoyevsky - quote him directly
“Without God, all things are permitted”
Please don't make another half ass attempt to pass someone else's ideas off as your own. You impotent clown.
Imagine being so stupid you think Dostoyevksy was the first to think about objective and subjective morality.
LMAO!
I didn't say that. I said you butchered Dostoyevksy's words and didn't give him credit.
I called you an impotent clown because you lack substance. You regurgitate other people's ideas without understanding.
Notice how all you do is argue? That's because you lack the ability to reason. "Smartest guys in the room" like you are a dime a dozen. Always loud, always confident, always wrong, and never know when to quit.