I went camping in the mountains with my girlfriend for the July 4th weekend so not much running, but supplemented with some hiking. Committing to the mileage this week though.
I'm only done with page 1 but want to post my thoughts before I learn what has happened in the last 4 weeks.
I immediately called John Kellogg and asked him what he thought. His first thought was, 'Won't this come down to just who is more talented as neither will properly be able to train?"
Then we talked about it a bit and think the edge ifs for 5 minute guy assuming he paces it correctly. He's actually training and can get fitter. 10-minute guy is just getting his legs used to pounding. Plus 4 minute guy was quite talented to begin with. NOw I don't know how out of shape he was at the start and 10-minute guy just ran 14:30.
I"d love it if both ran a 5 mile time trial at the start so we knew both runner's base fitness levels.
If the fitness levels were similar, I'd say he's gonna win but if he's totally out of shape, then you will win.
This post was edited 22 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
I added in the last line about fitness levels.
I'm only done with page 1 but want to post my thoughts before I learn what has happened in the last 4 weeks.
I immediately called John Kellogg and asked him what he thought. His first thought was, 'Won't this come down to just who is more talented as neither will properly be able to train?"
Then we talked about it a bit and think the edge ifs for 5 minute guy assuming he paces it correctly. He's actually training and can get fitter. 10-minute guy is just getting his legs used to pounding. Plus 4 minute guy was quite talented to begin with. NOw I don't know how out of shape he was at the start and 10-minute guy just ran 14:30.
I"d love it if both ran a 5 mile time trial at the start so we knew both runner's base fitness levels.
What about increased capillary density, increased red blood cell count, increased total blood volume and increased mitochondria?
I'm only done with page 1 but want to post my thoughts before I learn what has happened in the last 4 weeks.
I immediately called John Kellogg and asked him what he thought. His first thought was, 'Won't this come down to just who is more talented as neither will properly be able to train?"
Then we talked about it a bit and think the edge ifs for 5 minute guy assuming he paces it correctly. He's actually training and can get fitter. 10-minute guy is just getting his legs used to pounding. Plus 4 minute guy was quite talented to begin with. NOw I don't know how out of shape he was at the start and 10-minute guy just ran 14:30.
I"d love it if both ran a 5 mile time trial at the start so we knew both runner's base fitness levels.
What about increased capillary density, increased red blood cell count, increased total blood volume and increased mitochondria?
Mind you, OP is also not in his 14:30 shape.
The OP ran 14:30 this year and was running D1. The other guy has been out of college for how many years, drinking? Vinny may be starting in like 20 minute 5k shape.
OP, if I put a guy to VInny's head on day 1 of training, what do you think Vinny would have run? What do you think you would have run?
The more I think about it it's OP by a mile. He's been running d1. HE just ran 14:30 - he doesn't need to train to break 3 hours. The other dude hasn't been running at all. He may be totally screwed.
This post was edited 9 hours after it was posted.
Reason provided:
typo
Rojo you’re the best. You just chose the one guy to prevail in your first post, and then in your second post you chose the other guy. Brilliant. Now you can bump whichever post turns out correct.
What about increased capillary density, increased red blood cell count, increased total blood volume and increased mitochondria?
Mind you, OP is also not in his 14:30 shape.
The OP ran 14:30 this year and was running D1. The other guy has been out of college for how many years, drinking? Vinny may be starting in like 20 minute 5k shape.
OP, if I put a guy to VInny's head on day 1 of training, what do you think Vinny would have run? What do you think you would have run?
The more I think about it it's OP by a mile. He's been running d1. HE just ran 14:30 - he doesn't need to train to break 3 hours. The other dude hasn't been running at all. He may be totally screwed.
There's no real telling what he could have run on day 1, so I'm really not sure where he's at. All I can really say is that, when trained, I've seen Vinny do absolutely incredible things on the track, so I'll never not be a little nervous lining up next to him. But this time, I think it will be me by a mile (or two) too. Thanks Rojo
I think you guys should stop now and each run an all out 5k maybe in a local road race and then base your training at percentages of that.
In other words your friend training at his current VO2 max or some other metric and you training twice as slow as your current VO2 max or other metric. Then I think you will have something much more interesting than what this is.
I think you guys should stop now and each run an all out 5k maybe in a local road race and then base your training at percentages of that.
In other words your friend training at his current VO2 max or some other metric and you training twice as slow as your current VO2 max or other metric. Then I think you will have something much more interesting than what this is.
I like the idea though!
I did run the idea of running a benchmark race by Vinny and the council today and all agreed that its more fun and suspenseful to hold off on any racing until the marathon. That is a really interesting idea though!
I think you guys should stop now and each run an all out 5k maybe in a local road race and then base your training at percentages of that.
In other words your friend training at his current VO2 max or some other metric and you training twice as slow as your current VO2 max or other metric. Then I think you will have something much more interesting than what this is.
I like the idea though!
I did run the idea of running a benchmark race by Vinny and the council today and all agreed that its more fun and suspenseful to hold off on any racing until the marathon. That is a really interesting idea though!
I think you might have missed my point.
I am not talking about a benchmark race to see your progress. It is more to establish your current fitness to determine the slow / fast pace in relation to both of you in the current condition you are right now.
This way the 5:00 / 10:00 is not as arbitrary especially for your friend doing the 5:00 pace which he can handle a lot better in the best shape of his life but not so well if he is not in top form.
It's taking your idea which I think is very interesting and making it a lot more meaningful.
As an example if you take someone like Meb 10 years ago and had him run 5ish minute pace all the time it would not be ideal of course but he would still be able to arguably run a decent Marathon. Make Meb do 5 minute pace all the time now and you would have a very different result.
So you don't use Pr's for something like this, you would use your current fitness level and determine your own VO2 max pace (or some other measure) and his current VO2 max fitness and +/- from that. You can figure that out now with a time trial and then start your idea based on that.