British shot putter goes on Piers Morgan to try to save women's sports. #sexnotgender

Wise Old Man wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

BTW, elite snooker is no longer sex or gender categorized. Yes, it seems that those in the know realize that women can be as good or better than men and don’t need their own protected category to succeed (no surprise) and so can trans snookerers. I’m sure we will have a woman world champion soon enough as the sport grows in popularity with women.

Link:www.womenssnooker.com/about/faqs/

I’m learning all about snooker. Reanne Evans is the women’s goat. She kicks men’s asses all the time. She says it’s all about coordination and strategy and not physicality and gender has no place in the world of snooker.

She’s been battling for years to have equal access for women to the men’s competitions and have elite competitions be gender neutral. Just today she beat the former world champion, Stuart Bingham, in some major event.

Link:www.thenationalnews.com/sport/reanne-e...

RunRagged wrote:

tickle wrote:

How comprehension challenged can you be? None of that rules out PMs symptoms overlapping with menstruation. Now read these and go drown yourself.

”PMS symptoms can begin any time after ovulation (though they typically begin in the week before your period) and last until 5 or so days after menstruation begins.”

Link:www.healthline.com/health/premenstrual...

”This group of symptoms is referred to as premenstrual syndrome (PMS). Although the symptoms usually stop when the menstrual period begins, in some people the symptoms continue during and even after their menstrual periods.”

Link:www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/preme...

Sure many of the physical and psychological phenomena which that article lists as "PMS symptoms" - aches and pains, thirst and appetite changes, fatigue, swelling of the hands or feet, skin problems, insomnia, poor concentration, depression, irritability, anxiety, angry outbursts, crying, nap taking, changes in sexual desire etc. - can and do occur during menstruation.

But the fact that these phenomena can and do occur whilst a girl or woman is menstruating means they are not occurring premenstrually and thus they are not caused by, or part of, premenstrual syndrome.

All these same symptoms can and do occur during times of life when women and girls can't get PMS because we don't ovulate and menstruate then, such as during pregnancy, after menopause and prior to puberty adolescence.

All the symptoms that can be counted as PMS symptoms in girls and women during the 40 or years we are capable of ovulation and menstruation if they occur at the time in our cycles after we've ovulated but before our menstrual flow has started can and do occur in males too. Because the same exact physical and psychological symptoms that people experience can have many, many different causes.

The majority of people with symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) such as flatulence, loose stools, constipation and abdominal pain do not have those symptoms because they have IBS. Many people with symptoms of serious immune deficiency do not have those symptoms because of acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). Most people who experience crushing fatigue and are feeling extremely "poorly," as the British would put it, do not have those symptoms due to chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS).

Wise Old Man wrote:

RunRagged wrote:

The sports you find laughable are taken seriously by the persons who compete in them and follow them. You do know, I hope, that some people find running pretty risible too.

You're right that biological differences between the sexes don't appear to give adolescent and adult males as much of an advantage over females in darts as in sports like running and swimming - but that's definitely not the case in snooker, disc golf and archery.

Men and teenage boys have a huge competitive edge over women and teenage girls in snooker, disc golf and archery due to biological factors like males' far greater upper body strength, lean muscle mass, lung capacity and throat size, taller height on average, wider shoulder width, longer arm length and reach, bigger hand and finger size, far greater grip strength - along with males' considerably lower rates of respiration and heart beat, different center of gravity, and the different nature of male and female muscles, tendons, connective tissues, muscles, levels of muscle memory, etc.

Moreover, males have major advantages in snooker, disc golf and archery - and to a lesser extent in darts - because they lack female breasts that can get in the way, female metabolism, natural female tendency to put on on body fat and female distribution of body fat; and because as males, they don't go through female hormonal cycles due to ovulation and menstruation; they don't have periods; and they never ever have to deal with or even worry about pregnancy, childbirth, miscarriage, abortion, maternity and breastfeeding affecting their ability to train and compete at any time over the course of their sports careers.

Also, for the record: the sports you find hilarious are fairly lucrative relative to some other sports. The top prize in a darts tournament is currently £500,000 (GBP) - which is also the current top prize for professional snooker events. By comparison, the top prize at the world archery championships a relatively paltry $30,000 (USD). Beyond the prize money, people who excel in these sports often earn good money from sponsorship deals, ancillary awards, appearances and speaking gigs too.

Natalie Ryan, the male athlete with a trans identity who won several US women's disc golf tournaments in 2022, took home $44,000 (USD) in prize money from those events. The top 20 male players in professional men's disc golf average more than $60,000 per year in prize money. Maybe that's chump change to you, but most people would consider winning that amount of dough from throwing a frisbee around on golf courses to be a pretty sweet deal.

The prize money in professional women's snooker is still much, much lower than the prize money in men's snooker, in large part because women were only given a place on the world snooker tour for the first time in 2022. The top prize for an event in women's snooker on the world tour is now £15,000, a tiny amount compared to the £500,000 top prize in men's snooker on the tour.

As it happens, the top two players in men's pro snooker consistently earn in the million-pound range from being snooker aces. Even as you snort through your nose that sports like snooker, disc golf, darts and archery are hilarious, a lot of the guys who perform at the topmost levels of these endeavors are laughing all the way to the bank.

You world view is misogynist. There’s literally not any physical endeavor on earth where you think women and men are on a level playing field. Seriously, your attitude is regressive and discriminatory. You are implying women are inferior across a vast array of activities. Your nonsense has been used to justify discrimination in the work place and across society for ages. Don’t you think women are just as good fighter pilots and surgeons? What about the surgeons breasts and hips making their access to the operative field more difficult or that it’s harder for then the bear the weight of the headlamp. Maybe they should stick to being pediatricians or housewives. Actually, for the latter role I’m very confident they are better then men. I know you think your extreme views are protecting women, but no, they are injuring them.

RunRagged wrote:

We are not talking about "any physical endeavor on earth" here, though. We're talking specifically about sports.

In most areas of life particularly nowadays in the era of machinery and tech, the physical differences between the two sexes don't matter. But in sports and the relatively few other areas where these physical differences do matter, they usually matter a great deal.

When physical differences between the sexes in those areas of life where they matter are ignored, denied, minimized, downplayed, and/or treated as they don't exist or have no bearing, it's almost always female people who are put at the most risk, suffer the greatest levels of exclusion and unfairness, and generally get the short end of the stick.

However, in areas like sports, medical care and research, and the design and provision of communal and public toilet facilities, pretending that physical sex differences don't exist, don't matter - or they exist and matter but only to such a small extent that they are inconsequential - does a disservice to males too.

For example, most men and boys prefer having the convenience of being able to use men's communal restrooms equipped with numerous urinals - and troughs, pissoirs and urinals for males that ere placed in public areas like streets in some parts of the world - rather than being stuck using restrooms solely equipped with a much smaller number of toilets enclosed in stalls like women's restrooms. Men and boys generally like being able to zip in and out of restrooms in a jiffy by using urinals rather than having to queue in time-wasting lines waiting for a toilet stall to open up the way women and girls typically do.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Joe Jackson wrote:

This does not in any way reinforce any point you have attempted to make. It’s yet another example of women getting screwed out of fair competition for years and years.

My point is simply that woman are extremely able bodied and in many sorts of activities and competitions, like snooker, they don’t need “a league of their own’” and saying otherwise is underestimating women, and it’s this sort of rhetoric that’s been used to exclude women from all sorts of opportunities and work throughout history.

The real unfairness in this snooker example is not that a trans woman was allowed in some women’s only snooker tournament, it’s that women have been barred from snooker in general and elite snooker in particular, when all along all they needed was an opportunity and they are more than able to beat the guys.

Rather than seeing the real problem, another poster argued that woman can’t possibly compete with men in snooker because of their physical limitations, and g-d forbid a trans woman is allowed into their match.

That’s missing the forest for the trees.

RunRagged wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

You world view is misogynist. There’s literally not any physical endeavor on earth where you think women and men are on a level playing field. Seriously, your attitude is regressive and discriminatory. You are implying women are inferior across a vast array of activities. Your nonsense has been used to justify discrimination in the work place and across society for ages. Don’t you think women are just as good fighter pilots and surgeons? What about the surgeons breasts and hips making their access to the operative field more difficult or that it’s harder for then the bear the weight of the headlamp. Maybe they should stick to being pediatricians or housewives. Actually, for the latter role I’m very confident they are better then men. I know you think your extreme views are protecting women, but no, they are injuring them.

We are not talking about "any physical endeavor on earth" here, though. We're talking specifically about sports.

In most areas of life particularly nowadays in the era of machinery and tech, the physical differences between the two sexes don't matter. But in sports and the relatively few other areas where these physical differences do matter, they usually matter a great deal.

When physical differences between the sexes in those areas of life where they matter are ignored, denied, minimized, downplayed, and/or treated as they don't exist or have no bearing, it's almost always female people who are put at the most risk, suffer the greatest levels of exclusion and unfairness, and generally get the short end of the stick.

However, in areas like sports, medical care and research, and the design and provision of communal and public toilet facilities, pretending that physical sex differences don't exist, don't matter - or they exist and matter but only to such a small extent that they are inconsequential - does a disservice to males too.

For example, most men and boys prefer having the convenience of being able to use men's communal restrooms equipped with numerous urinals - and troughs, pissoirs and urinals for males that ere placed in public areas like streets in some parts of the world - rather than being stuck using restrooms solely equipped with a much smaller number of toilets enclosed in stalls like women's restrooms. Men and boys generally like being able to zip in and out of restrooms in a jiffy by using urinals rather than having to queue in time-wasting lines waiting for a toilet stall to open up the way women and girls typically do.

Wise Old Man wrote:

RunRagged wrote:

The sports you find laughable are taken seriously by the persons who compete in them and follow them. You do know, I hope, that some people find running pretty risible too.

You're right that biological differences between the sexes don't appear to give adolescent and adult males as much of an advantage over females in darts as in sports like running and swimming - but that's definitely not the case in snooker, disc golf and archery.

Men and teenage boys have a huge competitive edge over women and teenage girls in snooker, disc golf and archery due to biological factors like males' far greater upper body strength, lean muscle mass, lung capacity and throat size, taller height on average, wider shoulder width, longer arm length and reach, bigger hand and finger size, far greater grip strength - along with males' considerably lower rates of respiration and heart beat, different center of gravity, and the different nature of male and female muscles, tendons, connective tissues, muscles, levels of muscle memory, etc.

Moreover, males have major advantages in snooker, disc golf and archery - and to a lesser extent in darts - because they lack female breasts that can get in the way, female metabolism, natural female tendency to put on on body fat and female distribution of body fat; and because as males, they don't go through female hormonal cycles due to ovulation and menstruation; they don't have periods; and they never ever have to deal with or even worry about pregnancy, childbirth, miscarriage, abortion, maternity and breastfeeding affecting their ability to train and compete at any time over the course of their sports careers.

Also, for the record: the sports you find hilarious are fairly lucrative relative to some other sports. The top prize in a darts tournament is currently £500,000 (GBP) - which is also the current top prize for professional snooker events. By comparison, the top prize at the world archery championships a relatively paltry $30,000 (USD). Beyond the prize money, people who excel in these sports often earn good money from sponsorship deals, ancillary awards, appearances and speaking gigs too.

Natalie Ryan, the male athlete with a trans identity who won several US women's disc golf tournaments in 2022, took home $44,000 (USD) in prize money from those events. The top 20 male players in professional men's disc golf average more than $60,000 per year in prize money. Maybe that's chump change to you, but most people would consider winning that amount of dough from throwing a frisbee around on golf courses to be a pretty sweet deal.

The prize money in professional women's snooker is still much, much lower than the prize money in men's snooker, in large part because women were only given a place on the world snooker tour for the first time in 2022. The top prize for an event in women's snooker on the world tour is now £15,000, a tiny amount compared to the £500,000 top prize in men's snooker on the tour.

As it happens, the top two players in men's pro snooker consistently earn in the million-pound range from being snooker aces. Even as you snort through your nose that sports like snooker, disc golf, darts and archery are hilarious, a lot of the guys who perform at the topmost levels of these endeavors are laughing all the way to the bank.

You world view is misogynist. There’s literally not any physical endeavor on earth where you think women and men are on a level playing field. Seriously, your attitude is regressive and discriminatory. You are implying women are inferior across a vast array of activities. Your nonsense has been used to justify discrimination in the work place and across society for ages. Don’t you think women are just as good fighter pilots and surgeons? What about the surgeons breasts and hips making their access to the operative field more difficult or that it’s harder for then the bear the weight of the headlamp. Maybe they should stick to being pediatricians or housewives. Actually, for the latter role I’m very confident they are better then men. I know you think your extreme views are protecting women, but no, they are injuring them.