Do you want to prevent trans-people from competing because they have an advantage, or because you don't like trans-people?

Boys shouldn’t be playing against girls, unless it’s mixed, in school sports. That’s why we have gender sports. Boys/men are far better at sports than girls/women. I feel you may think you made a good argument is laughable.

Wonder if it could keep going on without conjunctive pronouns or punctuation:

I feel

you may think

you made a good argument

is laughable

boys are better than girls

you sound ridiculous

I think you think we all think

is under appreciated

our father art in heaven

holy be thy name

thy kingdom come…

Somebody already pointed out the only logical solution is to eliminate all categories. The workplace doesn't allow a weaker sex to receive equal pay for less work. Why should sports?

But whenever someone demonstrates non-conforming behavior you accuse them of conforming to stereotypes of women. If a man dresses in highly stereotypical women's clothing and makeup - is he breaking stereotypes or reinforcing them?

Actually Pro Tennis does, the women play fewer games. Wonder why there aren't a few trans-athletes playing in women's golf, tennis, or wnba. Is it just a matter of time?

Giving individuals with a mental condition advantages in any competitive venue is a dangerous precedent.

Both.

That is the point. Women are paid the same ad men in sports for far inferior performance. But it isn't allowed in the workplace. Imaging paying women the same as men in a sales job for selling 1/2 as much.

So I brought up the story and called for people's attention because I thought it was irrelevant, while you kept complete silence on the matter until I mentioned because you are the defender of women's sports? What a wonderful logic!

Is that the reason you are completely invisible when people on this board attack Title IX for "ruining men's college sports"? Is thay why you are totally uninterested when people on this board ridicule WTA, WNBA, NWSL or any other women's sports? Or are you showing your disdain because those leagues have "male supremacists" like Candace Parker and Megan Rapinoe?

So I guess this doctor is also a "male supremacist."

And here is a list of 29 "male supremacist" mecial organizations.

transhealthproject.org

Medical Organization Statements on Transgender Health Care - Trans Health Project

Links to 20+ medical organization statements in support of the medical necessity of transgender-related health care and its coverage under health insurance plans.

Link:transhealthproject.org/resources/medic...

Trans people haters actually just want to sleep with trans people

I take it you are trying to justify the reason you did that?

You too would go bawz deep in some trans if you had the opportunity.

Your the expert!

Your debate skills are not particularly strong. The article you brought up actually proves the case against allowing transgender girls to play girls Sports. It Shows that with just a few boys playing against the girls it completely changes the fairness of the sport and the team with the boys dominates. And nearly everyone is unhappy about it. This is exactly the concern about letting trans girls play girls Sports. So thanks for proving what can happen if we allow it to happen.

As far as your point that less people are up in arms about it then the trans girls playing girls Sports issue, I'll give you that that is a slightly valid point, however....

A] the whole issues stems from a gender equality issue in sports which was born from making sure women had the same opportunity in sports as men and now they have to do the same for men who don't have a chance to play field hockey. So in a perverse outcome the Title Nine protection for women created the issue. Be careful what you wish for?

B] people who are aware of it clearly are up in arms and are trying to change it. Don't act like no one cares

C] this appears to be a mostly one sport issue in just a couple States. if trans girls were deemed legally allowed to play any girls Sports they want it would be a 50-state issue across all sports. I.e, a lot bigger. And of course an international sports issue also [ show me where boys are playing against the girls on the international level]

D. Show me where the parents and players and coaches who are against the boys playing field hockey against the girls are being called "hateful, ignorant, biased A-holes!" ?? [ like the folks who are against trans women playing women's sports are bring called] hmmm...nowhere.

So yes you pointed out something that people are less aware of but as they become aware they will be equally annoyed and upset by it. I think it is a travesty that they are letting these mixed gender teams destroy the all girls teams. Of course it should be changed.

Or of course as many have said the simplest thing would be to eliminate the protected category of women's sports and just let everyone compete together. What do you think, wouldn't that be easier and "fairer"? Hmmm.... somehow I don't think you will go along with that one.

OP, unfortunately your more nuanced take (which I share) is largely lost in the conversation. The loudest voices on each "side" of this issue tend not to be reasonable (understanding of physiology) or respectful (understanding of sociology/human rights). This is unfortunate because it means that those who feel that sports classifications should be based on sex (not gender) are vilified or dismissed as bigots/TERFs, even if they are supportive of trans rights more broadly.

In almost all situations in society, classifying according to gender (or having no classification) is the most sensible option as most classification exists for reasons relating to social/cultural norms, ie. somewhat arbitrary/about presentation. There are a small number of situations where physiology is the primary reason for separation, and in these situations it can be justifiable to separate based on sex. I'd even argue that in sports this only really applies to higher level adult sports. If I showed up to a women's beer league community soccer league, I wouldn't care if some of my fellow participants were trans. The purpose of the women's classification there is to encourage women's participation since some women feel uncomfortable socially in mixed leagues. This includes transwomen, so their participation in the community/rec women's league makes sense.

But, if one paints the picture that all those who oppose sex-based classification in competitive sport are inherently bigots (and amplify/strawman the actual bigots who share this viewpoint but for the wrong reasons), it is easier to dismiss this view without discussing the valid points about the permanent physiological advantage given by male puberty, and the importance of maintaining meaningful competition categories. People who are spewing hateful or derogatory stuff (misgendering, deadnaming, classifying being trans as a mental illness etc.) must be disavowed.

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to always happen, or the bigots champion someone who is presenting purely scientific arguments, which along with the vilification, tends to result in more reasonable and respectful voices being drowned out. Plus, since the forums are anonymous people feel they can get away with things that they'd never say irl or in an identifiable context.

Irl, most of the people I talk to quietly have a position similar to mine, or feel that although there may be an advantage that inclusion (gender classification) is more important. Though I may not agree with the latter entirely (agree inclusion is important, disagree with solution), this is at least a reasonable and respectful point of view with which one can debate. Online is a dumpster fire.