Serious discussion: Israel has the most cases of covid per capita in the world right now. What is going on?

501miler wrote:

You wejo are part of the problem because you didn't lead when you could have.

Exactly. THIS is what he chooses to write about COVID? Huh? And this is after, when confronted with the propaganda posts by The Unkle, he shrugs his shoulders and responds that what is he supposed to do about it.

what a joke the brojos are

You can spout nonsensical gibberish all day but here are some facts. Even comes from a "reliable" state! LOL

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1435193873534537728?s=20

OozmaKappa wrote:

And yet the case fatality rate is .6%, one of the lowest in the entire world.

For reference, in Norway it's .5% and in the US it's 1.6%.

Death rates are more important than cases. Number of cases is a worthless metric. Its only use is fearmongering. Seriously, that's just about the only thing it's good for.

THIS^

Why the media constantly beats that infection rate drum is beyond me. The only metrics that matter are hospitalizations and death.

No idea. What I do know is Covid hits hard, infects everyone in a given area, then moves on to a new region. It just sounds like it’s Israel’s turn. Next month it’ll be a different country as the new Covid hot spot. And then a different one the following month. It is what it is. Let’s not read into it more than it is.

I posted this stat a week or so ago and I think the thread was deleted.

Anyhow. If the majority of Israelis are vaxxed, and their per capita rate is the highest, perhaps this is a pandemic of the vaccinated.

False sense of security. You can torture the data long enough to convey your point, until you can't. We're there.

6uedtyjhdch wrote:

You can spout nonsensical gibberish all day but here are some facts. Even comes from a "reliable" state! LOL

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1435193873534537728?s=20

So what? 1,700 people out of a population of 4 million.

1,700 / 4,000,000 = .000425

Half of Alabama is already (or on the path to) type 2 diabetes. Use your brain to understand what the actual problems are. Critical thinking and all of that.

arunnerinwa wrote:

It also shows that 28% of deaths in the last six months are among the fully vaccinated.

Please read that again. 28% of deaths in the Seattle area in the last six months are among the fully vaccinated. This is incredible give that most people didn't even get vaccinated until March / April. Our vaccination rate overall is a little over 70%.

In the same dataset it reveals you are 32x more likely to die from COVID if unvaccinated vs. vaccinated. Read up on the Base Rate Fallacy, I would suggest.

Precious Roy wrote:

Israel was the fastest to roll out mass vaccinations, but actually fell well short of reaching a high percentage of the population because of resistance in ultra orthodox communities and some Arab communities. COVID hotspots in Israel are currently in ultra orthodox neighborhoods.

There is waning immunity in older populations. As people age, their ability to sustain vaccine immunity declines. Israel was caught by surprise on this issue as it was one of the earliest countries to have a mass vaccination campaign. Israel is deploying boosters for people aged 60+ at a very rapid pace and the moving seven day average of cases is already starting to show a decline as a result (data is patchy on testing due to the high holidays--won't smooth out for a few weeks). Big daily infection results in Israel are due to delays in test results due to Rosh Hashana.

College football players and professional athletes are testing positive for delta and most were likely recently vaccinated as those age groups were not cleared for vaccination until late in the pandemic, which somewhat debunks the idea of waning immunity and points more towards the idea that the efficacy of the current vaccine designs against delta is far less than reported. A nearby county has been tracking breakthrough cases, hospitalizations and deaths since the vaccines became widely available:

The numbers would indicate that the vaccines are about 70% effective, but one has to acknowledge that delta has only been around for about half of that observation period. If most of the breakthrough infections are mostly delta, that may indicate that the actual efficacy is as low as 35%. The breakthrough outbreaks in young, recently vaccinated individuals are indicative of this. A flu vaccine typically covers three or so strains for a given season and still rarely cracks 50% efficacy. The question is the increase in cases due to waning immunity or are vaccines not useful against the new variants.

jamb innn wrote:

I posted this stat a week or so ago and I think the thread was deleted.

Anyhow. If the majority of Israelis are vaxxed, and their per capita rate is the highest, perhaps this is a pandemic of the vaccinated.

False sense of security. You can torture the data long enough to convey your point, until you can't. We're there.

Just wrong. If the pandemic was merely about cases, it wouldn't be a pandemic. It's about serious cases --> hospitalizations, deaths. If you've absorbed any of this thread, you'll see multiple posters intelligently pointing out that Israel tests a ton, is less comprehensively vaccinated, and less observant of distancing/masking than widely thought. Still, they are doing orders of magnitude better than the Southern USA states like Alabama in every important metric. So the obsession with cases is misplaced.

The NFL's own stats have unvaxxed players as 7x more likely to get COVID than vaxxed players. Have not heard of any cases requiring hospitalization for either group.

Source:

https://sports.yahoo.com/nf-ls-chief-medical-officer-refutes-bill-belichicks-comments-about-covid-19-vaccine-144935522.html

From your Mesa dataset, not sure how you're getting 70% efficacy. It's roughly 50-50 on vaccinated to unvaccinated and hospitalizations are 85% unvaccinated so there is your rough number.

One other interesting thing of note from the Mesa County dashboard is there have been 811 confirmed break through infections among the vaccinated, but only 99 confirmed reinfections in the previously infected.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

joed|rty wrote:

Fully vaxxed individuals are contracting, getting hospitalized and dying of Delta (about two thirds less than the unvaxxed population, but that number continues to drop as new data comes out).

You’re fear-mongering. 2/3 less where are you getting these numbers…? You mean being vaxxed is only 66% better protection against serious cases of COVID? That would be really bad news but I have not seen any figure like that. If it were the case, I’m not sure why the Northeast wouldn’t be doing a heckuva lot worse than it is.

The northeast is doing better due to seasonal fluctuations. The same drop off occurred at the same time last year (along with the increase in cases in the south). Wait til the winter if you think the NE is doing everything right and the south is doing everything wrong.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

arunnerinwa wrote:

It also shows that 28% of deaths in the last six months are among the fully vaccinated.

Please read that again. 28% of deaths in the Seattle area in the last six months are among the fully vaccinated. This is incredible give that most people didn't even get vaccinated until March / April. Our vaccination rate overall is a little over 70%.

In the same dataset it reveals you are 32x more likely to die from COVID if unvaccinated vs. vaccinated. Read up on the Base Rate Fallacy, I would suggest.

Is that you Harambe? Lol. Where do they (CDC?) come up with something like this? Is it one size fits all - what type of unvaccinated person are they talking about? How could a very healthy, fit, unvaccinated 25 yr old be 32x more likely to die than an old, sickly, 75 yr old or a clinically obese person?

Sadly, here's a guy who was vaccinated & died of Covid complications:

I know...people will say because of his age (64) he would have died anyway. But the point here is that this is a complete product failure. Now his story was publicized because of his status as one of NC's most prominent attorneys. I wonder how many lesser known people have died after being vaccinated & we'll never know.

joed|rt wrote:

The northeast is doing better due to seasonal fluctuations. The same drop off occurred at the same time last year (along with the increase in cases in the south). Wait til the winter if you think the NE is doing everything right and the south is doing everything wrong.

The South was hammered in the winter months as well, it's not like they didn't have that Winter COVID surge due to seasonal factor. What you account to seasonal fluctuations, I'd account to vaccination. After all, the proportion of unvaxxed people getting hospitalized/dying is way higher than vaccinated people.

You got that right wrote:

Is that you Harambe? Lol. Where do they (CDC?) come up with something like this? Is it one size fits all - what type of unvaccinated person are they talking about? How could a very healthy, fit, unvaccinated 25 yr old be 32x more likely to die than an old, sickly, 75 yr old or a clinically obese person?

I know...people will say because of his age (64) he would have died anyway. But the point here is that this is a complete product failure. Now his story was publicized because of his status as one of NC's most prominent attorneys. I wonder how many lesser known people have died after being vaccinated & we'll never know.

It's literally in the data the poster shared. I/the CDC had no part in it.

Vaccination doesn't have a 100% success rate in preventing death from COVID. Sorry to say, but no medicine does. If you want to fear-monger and say it's an unstoppable virus then that's your prerogative.

Israel actually has a large population of Palestinian essential workers and refugees/immigrants that do not have high vaccine penetrance. 1 dose JJ and 2 dose MRNA vaccines are very effective and only in the very old and certain medical conditions (i.e. immunosupressed) does there seem to be significant weakening of vaccine effectiveness for reducing morbidity and mortality. The risk for a breakthrough is between 1/5000 and 1/10000 in the USA, therefore there will be breakthrough but the vast majority of those cases will be asymptomatic or mild. Get Vaccinated!!

hello

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

jamb innn wrote:

I posted this stat a week or so ago and I think the thread was deleted.

Anyhow. If the majority of Israelis are vaxxed, and their per capita rate is the highest, perhaps this is a pandemic of the vaccinated.

False sense of security. You can torture the data long enough to convey your point, until you can't. We're there.

Just wrong. If the pandemic was merely about cases, it wouldn't be a pandemic. It's about serious cases --> hospitalizations, deaths. If you've absorbed any of this thread, you'll see multiple posters intelligently pointing out that Israel tests a ton, is less comprehensively vaccinated, and less observant of distancing/masking than widely thought. Still, they are doing orders of magnitude better than the Southern USA states like Alabama in every important metric. So the obsession with cases is misplaced.

So ignort the data that we do have. Got it.

And at what point do we say this isnt pandemic, but is now endemic and we just deal with it?

The ability for hospitals to "right-size" for the increased demand isn't necessarily going to appear out of thin air.

If you want to fear-monger and say it's an unstoppable virus then that's your prerogative.[/quote]

It’s not fear mongering to point out the obvious truth, which is that this virus is absolutely proving to be unstoppable with vaccines. The more we get vaccinated, the more positive cases we have. This is well established at this point.

Could natural immunity work? Why are we not testing people for antibodies BEFORE recommending an experimental vaccine? This is the focus group that Harambe needs to begin his data on, but we have no such focus group, why?