Full Shelby Houlihan Report is Out from CAS

moultonk wrote:

LRC readers may recall two long posts I wrote on the Houlihan case, "The Railroading of Shelby Houlihan" and "Burritogate All Comes Down to Corn". While it is disappointing they have allowed the ruling to stand, I feel a sense of relief there is no new evidence or "smoking gun" in the report that undermines any of my previous arguments or observations. There are, however, several new pieces of information and World Athletics' case relies heavily on the testimony of expert witness John McGlone, which I will post about later. Nevertheless, it is obvious their own due process was not followed and that it is entirely possible Houlihan's positive sample was the result of tainted pork consumption.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10663437https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10694214

Moultonk,

If i remember correctly you wrote at length about the boars, feedstock etc.

Essentially you managed to string together a narrative, but it was one that required all the holes to line up

essentially it wasnt and isnt plausible against the weight of likely evidence presented.

Fo example;

o Seventh, the carbon isotopic signature of the 19-NA detected in the Athlete’s

urine (-23 ‰ ng/mL) is fundamentally inconsistent with the largely corn-based

diet of commercial pigs in the US (-19 ‰ ng/mL).

yes, you can put together a narrative of farmer giles who does things his way, and has a breed that is more likely to have undescended testiles, and feeds nandoes in the first 6 months, or whatever hyothetical nonsense is required for fit the outcome.

but that doesn tmean the such narratives are 'fundamentally inconsistent' with reality.

so it was a lot of good, interesting work, and thank you for doing it, but presenting it as what happened is just a conspiracy theorists idea of heaven.

forcerunner wrote:

nike shill wrote:

I will have to find a picture and report my findings

https://youtu.be/2Kdthzsk2YM

I thought it could have been as well, but the upper looks closer to the fly wire built into it with dynamic fly wire around the mid foot which is consistent with victory 2 instead of victory elite.

To be fair, they do share the same upper. I'm having a hard time finding a picture so I'll watch the video and see if I can tell

But the same expert confirmed that the test he undertook only looked at metabolites from injection and not oral ingestion and he accepted this point that his results did not exclude oral ingestion.

What if it was sabotage?

Makes more sense than anything else.

ugoh wrote:

RunRaider wrote:

Both of the athletes you allege here have "said nothing" regarding Shelby Houlihan in fact signed onto a public letter opposing USATF's attempt to allow Houlihan to compete at the US Olympic Trials.

https://twitter.com/jgault13/status/1405675666561929217https://twitter.com/CleanSportCO/status/1405666744698425344

In Kara's case, this was not without risk, as she was a paid commentator at the Trials and could theoretically faced reprisal for bias from NBC. (I'm not saying this is likely -- Ato Bolden is still on their broadcasts, despite coaching a not insignificant number of athletes.)

Meaningless. Showing up on a list of names is not in line at all with her multi-year, multi-tweet, multi-blog post tantrum against her own teammates. This is not equivalent at all which is the point many of us are making.

How many tweets would be sufficient for Kara Goucher to alleviate your concerns?

Five? Ten? Thirty?

Personally, I think it makes perfect sense for an athlete to speak in more detail about misconduct they witnessed relative to misconduct they did not witness, but YMMV.

I'd say it's an emphatic dunk against her if you ask me. Pretty damning.

nike shill wrote:

To be fair, they do share the same upper. I'm having a hard time finding a picture so I'll watch the video and see if I can tell

Nope, can't tell. My favorite shot from the starting line is probably the 2012 5000m because of how you can see everyone's spikes easily

Rememberer wrote:

suspicion in the ignition wrote:

Ajee Wilson claimed tainted meat and had her suspension overturned.

Ajee is the most suspicious. When her positive came through she had all of her grocery store receipts, all of her red meat consumption was traced back (allegedly). Who does that????

Anyway, pretty clear what happened to Shelby. She was taking an illegal supplement, probably ostarine, that was contaminated with nandrolone. Ostarine clears your system quickly, but not the nandrolone.

Not saying Ajee was or wasn’t on something. But it was a completely different substance and concentration, that made food contamination more plausible than in Shelby’s case. That’s why the former got off and the latter didn’t. And agree with Aztec, most likely explanation is Shelby took contaminated supplement, but obviously couldn’t go with that excuse.

100% GUILTY

Ban completely justified.

sanootage wrote:

What if it was sabotage?

Makes more sense than anything else.

Yes, you're right. Wada conspiring with an unknown third party that put nandrolone in Houlihans food is more believable than Houlihan actually taking nandrolone herself.

"When you hear hoofbeats behind you, don't expect to see a zebra"

suspicion in the ignition wrote:

RunRaider wrote:

Here's something that jumps out at me: In her defense, Shelby Houlihan testified that she supports incarceration for dopers.

Yet, Shelby Houlihan did not sign the Clean Sport Pledge, which obliges professional athletes to pay a $25,000 fine if found guilty of a doping offense. Then-BTC teammate Gwen Jorgensen is a signatory, so it's not likely that Shelby simply did not know the pledge existed.

If athletes want the benefit of the doubt in situations such as these, it would be easier to offer if they would put their money where their mouth is before they are at an appeals hearing following a positive test result.

Interesting take. Are there athletes who have signed but who have still be popped for doping?

To my knowledge, none of the athletes who have signed have been sanctioned for doping.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

On another topic, what does her ban cover? If she continues to train seriously can she still compete in domestic meets or would she be limited to TTs?

Seriously, the ban is a done deal. What happens next? There's not going to be an investigation into who said what in defending her.

Basically, Shelby's lawyer threw a Hail Mary and it was busted.

DOPER.

Probnotthepope wrote:

sanootage wrote:

What if it was sabotage?

Makes more sense than anything else.

Yes, you're right. Wada conspiring with an unknown third party that put nandrolone in Houlihans food is more believable than Houlihan actually taking nandrolone herself.

And it just so happens that she benefited by this sabotage in the form of increased muscularity and extraordinary improvements in time.

Carbon Isotopes wrote:

Rojo why in the world are you more fixated on the carbon in her shoes, or lack thereof, over the carbon in her dope? The report literally shows that the drug can't come from pork via carbon analysis and you're over here blathering about shoes.

deflection

Lets be honest, Rojo isn't trying to make a coherent argument and doesn't believe what he is saying.

He is just trying to continue to shill for BTC so they still talk to LR as a journalist and don't cut them off.

Sad really and no journalistic integrity.

I'm perfectly comfortable at this point saying the nandrolone did not come from a burrito. I think that that's a reasonable conclusion that anyone will come to. There is just a tidal wave of evidence against that being the case and it's stupid to entertain anything otherwise.

Dingler wrote:

Not saying Ajee was or wasn’t on something. But it was a completely different substance and concentration, that made food contamination more plausible than in Shelby’s case. That’s why the former got off and the latter didn’t. And agree with Aztec, most likely explanation is Shelby took contaminated supplement, but obviously couldn’t go with that excuse.

^ This ^

Maybe the good old testo creme, contaminated with nandrolone. Or - that would be my guess - a sophisticated designer cocktail (where nandrolone may have been added on purpose or as contamination).

Here my list of possible scenarios:

1) Houlihan incompetently doped with nandrolone (e.g., like Hunter did).

or

2) Houlihan boldly used more than the safe dose of nandrolone because she felt safe after getting tested in the previous week or so.

or

3) Houlihan boldly used more than the safe dose of nandrolone because she was counting on a courtesy call from USADA in case of a test, which would have given her ample time to start overhydrating and masking.

or

4) Her handler (coach/doctor/pharmacist/…) incompetently doped with nandrolone (e.g., like Hunter did).

or

5) Her handler used a smart roid cocktail with an unfortunate high nandrolone concentration due to mis-weighing.

or

6) Houlihan got confused during the evening and drank Frerichs' or Centro’s roid cocktail in addition to hers.

or

7) One of her illegal supplements was contaminated with nandrolone (e.g., a testosterone cream).