Hockers 6th place is more impressive than Centros gold

fujimaster wrote:

Rai Benjamin's silver is more impressive than almost any previous gold to me.

This is an acceptable thing. Hockers time and competition is better than Centro. It was more impressive.

Is my high school 4:38 dual meet win more impressive than the guy that get 5th at state in a loaded field with a time of 4:12? Absolutely not.

This. Sort of like being varsity on a bad team vs. being 1st team JV on an elite team.

Troothsayer wrote:

Also, one race does not define a runner's career.

Yes they do.

Centro's gold is a perfext example.

Decker's fall in '84.

JBS marathon gold.

Billy Mills' insane kick to win in '64.

Wottle's last to first in '72.

Pre's balls out attempt in '72, but fading to 4th.

Keino's dominant 1500 win over Ryun in '68.

More recently...

Karston W running sub 46

Brazier's world champ win

Kessler's 3:35

Kipchoge 1:59:40

And on and on. Many HS runners' state champ performances, good and bad, are what they remember. This is what makes our sport fantastic. Big moments under the lights. Performing against the best and coming out on top, regardless of time.

So yeah, Hocker may have his moment at some point, but Centro's defining moment is far superior. Sorry.

FastTuohy wrote:

Centro's win was more impressive as he had no business winning that race, yet he found a way to do it. Hocker ran a great time to cap a great 7 months for him, but as others have said, the objective is to win.

Only 2-3 runners had a chance of winning. For everyone else, going for the win would have resulted in a crash and burn over the last lap.

The Dirty Duck wrote:

To me, the most impressive US men's 1500s/miles in the past 40 years:

1. Centro Gold

2. Lagat, various

3. Hocker yesterday

4. Webb HS mile record at Pre

5. Kessler HS 1500 record

Interesting list. Would you put Hocker that high if he ends up like Wheating, and never runs this fast again and never medals?

I ask b/c I'm not sure I would put Hocker in Tokyo over Wheating in Monaco. Both ran fast in fast races on fast tracks. Wheating ran faster, and finished higher. And the excitement over Wheating among runners was huge -- just ask the accountants at Nike.

But then I wouldn't put Hocker's 3:31.40 over Manzano's Silver, either.

Centro's name will be FORGOTTEN 40 years from now. He is an ASTERISK in history as the winner of the WORST 1500m since 1932. That was NO RACE...IT WAS AN EMBARRASSMENT to Olympic spirit of giving your best. DAMN THAT ENTIRE FIELD!!!

Amen, brother!

Javman wrote:

Centro's name will be FORGOTTEN 40 years from now. He is an ASTERISK in history as the winner of the WORST 1500m since 1932. That was NO RACE...IT WAS AN EMBARRASSMENT to Olympic spirit of giving your best. DAMN THAT ENTIRE FIELD!!!

It's been 57 years and do people ask: "Billy who?".

missBS wrote:

Hear me out……hocker runs 3:31, bests the former OR, PRs by 2 seconds after PRing by 2 seconds in the semifinal, and gets 6th in a loaded field in his FIRST world final event.

This, to me, is more impressive than the cr*p-shoot that was the 2016 final that went out in like 2:18, setting up a free for all, where the best tactician, not the best runner, won.

In 2020, the best runner won, and the best runners in the world placed where they should have, that being at the front of the pack.

This race is more impressive than Centros gold, and certainly better than the 3:49 Centro ran a couple weeks ago.

Thread is on page 6, troll score 8/10.

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

The Dirty Duck wrote:

To me, the most impressive US men's 1500s/miles in the past 40 years:

1. Centro Gold

2. Lagat, various

3. Hocker yesterday

4. Webb HS mile record at Pre

5. Kessler HS 1500 record

Interesting list. Would you put Hocker that high if he ends up like Wheating, and never runs this fast again and never medals?

I ask b/c I'm not sure I would put Hocker in Tokyo over Wheating in Monaco. Both ran fast in fast races on fast tracks. Wheating ran faster, and finished higher. And the excitement over Wheating among runners was huge -- just ask the accountants at Nike.

But then I wouldn't put Hocker's 3:31.40 over Manzano's Silver, either.

You're right about Manzano belonging above Hocker on that list. That was a sloppy omission. I was awestruck by Wheating's performance at the time, but finishing 4th at Monaco at age 23 is no comparison to a 6th in the Olympics at 20, IMO, beating Wightman, McSweyn, and Hoare, among others. I think Hocker's victory at Trials was more impressive than anything Wheating accomplished. And again, Wheating was extremely impressive.

Is this really a conundrum? Comparing a Gold medal finish to a respectable finish in a world class fast race in the Olympics. I like Cole, he is a young, talented, feisty competitor in his first Olympics. Centro, love him or hate him, was a veteran master tactician that won the U.S. a Gold on the biggest stage of the sport. The Rio race may not have been as fast but was indicative of a championship tactical race. The important question is, since Father Time in on Cole’s side, will Cole make the right decisions to put himself in a position to represent the U.S. in his prime in Paris. As a fan, I hope so because Cole was fun to watch at NCAA’s, US finals and the Olympics.

Centro is Trent Dilfer. He had one lucky win. Trent Dilfer isn't better than Dan Marino even though Dilfer has more super bowl rings.

Sorry, Nope, That's not it.

Gold medal always trumps the other places. The idea is to win the race. That's what Centro did in 2016.

fujimaster wrote:

I can't get over how beta it was for all the fast runners to let the pace go out in 2:18 in 2016.

If you are a sub 330 runner why let that happen? Only levels the playing field.. Great way to get yourself c u cked by a mediocre American runner.

Centro deserved that win on account of his competitors being beta losers.

Because you don’t want to pace someone else to gold. In this case, Tim knew he’d be fine with a medal and he also knew only a couple of people could hang with him. But I agree, not enough fast guys with balls that day in 2016.

aisudhf89ha wrote:

Centro is Trent Dilfer. He had one lucky win. Trent Dilfer isn't better than Dan Marino even though Dilfer has more super bowl rings.

Centro is like the infamous former social media influencer.

SeattleSilver wrote:

KaareV wrote:

Actually, Hocker lived up to Know Thyself. He ran close to a perfect race. 400 m 57,4 no 12 400-800 56.4 no 11 800-1200 56,5 no 9 and then 1200-1500 41.1.

But the result is less 'perfect' than the men ahead of him. It may well have been the best race Hocker could run,. But to the point of the thread, that doesn't make Hocker's race more impressive than Centro running the race he needed to run to achieve the goal of the day: The gold medal.

It was perfect given his abilities. Sure, there is no way you can compare it with the gold medal.

The Dirty Duck wrote:

I think Hocker's victory at Trials was more impressive than anything Wheating accomplished. And again, Wheating was extremely impressive.

I'm still curious as to whether you think you'll still think Hocker's 6th place is so impressive if it turns out to be his fastest race and highest finish ever.

I ask b/c I wonder how much of Hockermania is based on hope for the future.

PS It's refreshing to someone give Manzano his due. He has always been underappreciated, especially relative to Wheating.

aisudhf89ha wrote:

Centro is Trent Dilfer. He had one lucky win. Trent Dilfer isn't better than Dan Marino even though Dilfer has more super bowl rings.

Dumb.

Centro didn't need Ray Lewis or Jonathon Ogden to win his gold. I watched. He did it all by himself.

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

The Dirty Duck wrote:

I think Hocker's victory at Trials was more impressive than anything Wheating accomplished. And again, Wheating was extremely impressive.

I'm still curious as to whether you think you'll still think Hocker's 6th place is so impressive if it turns out to be his fastest race and highest finish ever.

I ask b/c I wonder how much of Hockermania is based on hope for the future.

PS It's refreshing to someone give Manzano his due. He has always been underappreciated, especially relative to Wheating.

If Hobbs Kessler never improves will we still be impressed with his 3:34? Of course, people are excited about Hocker's future.

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

I'm still curious as to whether you think you'll still think Hocker's 6th place is so impressive if it turns out to be his fastest race and highest finish ever.

I ask b/c I wonder how much of Hockermania is based on hope for the future.

I don't think I'll be any less impressed with his recent performances if he flames out without improving. His career wouldn't rank nearly as high on my list, but his crowning achievements would still have been scintillating.

One more correction, however, is that my list is really only a 35-year list. It was meant to start after Sidney Maree's world and American records.