50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

So we are back from sunny Tucson, and I finished last week with my first 30 mile week since having the bone chip in my heel stopping me. Looks like I will come up short of 1300 miles for the year, but when I'm back to running again (and with my wife still running with me), that is a win-win.

Last week I did get in one 8 miler and was hoping for that today, last day off on vacation before returning to work, but it's snowing and so just not certain about the footing outside. Today is a planned weights/core day so may be running indoors, which is not so much fun, but a whole lot safer footing.

For the speedy among us seniors, I did do 5 x 1/4 mile on a flat stretch of road in Tucson by their horse/dog racing track, in 2:04 average, not too fast, but had to open up the legs some. I just read that there may be added health benefits to our DNA/telomeres by doing high intensity instead of just LSD work. I do believe that aerobic work is still the most important part of staying young with our CV system and reducing our risk of CAD, but something faster at times just adds a spark to the fire of burning enough body fats to keep us "leaner and meaner". So my 30 mile weeks +/- are for health, CV health, weight control, joy, baseline racing fitness. Not in any particular order. Few chances for track racing for us Masters around here, so just looking for the roads when possible.

Not certain when the next race is before our St. Pat's 4 miler, and goals for 2018 include at least one 1/2 marathon under 2:00 and another Corporate Challenge mile under 7:30 (it'll be 2 weeks after the KCCC 1/2 marathon, so not much recovery from a tough, hilly race).

Tucson was chilly at times and ran in long-sleeves and even a jacket, but not like the zero windchill we have here in KC today. Frosty! Good day to try to reach closer to the sun? Happy New Year, all!

Rtype’s not-dead-yet 2017 summary and plan for 2018:

It’s been a challenging year for me running-wise. My right heel has sidelined me much of the year as it did much of 2016. Finally saw an orthopedic doc today, same one I saw in 2013 when the left heel was hurt, and he helped rule out stress fracture or any other serious problem. Despite this I’ve learned some valuable things this year:

1) I’ve found that doing nothing has not improved the heel pain. Rehabbing it is an active process and I’ve formulated a plan to work my way out of it.

2) I can live and be happy without running. But running is like icing on the cake, and I like icing!

3) I’ve learned how important my diet is when I’m not exercising. I’m down 7 pounds since Thanksgiving and that is with almost ZERO exercise. Yes, I’m using intermittent fasting because it has worked in the past and now recent science supports the benefits. Kudo’s to Charlie for figuring this out as well.

4) Some criticize this thread as being loaded with too many elites. I find it inspirational. I’m completely comfortable in my skin as a 70 to 75 percenter. What I find most disturbing is when I drag out my logs from the 70’s. Something we all share is we aint what we used to be and learning to live with that marks the measure of who we are as human beings.

5) Despite being injured a lot more than I’m well I’m still very lucky. I live my running life in a way that gives me the most options for the future. My very long-term goal is to preserve my ability to run into the future by not doing any kind of permanent damage to myself now. So, I’ve had no surgeries and no major medical interventions. Granted, I’ll quit running before others and I may not achieve my absolute maximal best running times, but, hopefully, I’ll still be able to do it long into the future. I’ve decided the “optimal-maximal” method I noted earlier in the year, is my modus operandi.

With that, the plan is to find the “Goldilocks Zone” of training. In the past I’ve been both a streaker and an every-other-day-runner. I’m opting for 4 days a week presently, with a very gradual buildup. Also, although this thread is great, I sometimes wonder if those of us pushing 60 could be served by a 60+ thread. A lot of crap happens between 50 and 60!

Have a great 2018 folks!

Rtype wrote:

What I find most disturbing is when I drag out my logs from the 70’s. Something we all share is we aint what we used to be and learning to live with that marks the measure of who we are as human beings.

Rtype, you seem to have a very healthy attitude about running and life. I'll just note that sometime around 2000 I threw away all of my training logs, which in my case were from the late '80s-mid '90s--I didn't get serious about running until I was about 30. I still remember my race times and the fact that I am now about 2 minutes/mile slower than I was 25-30 years ago is painfully obvious to me. But at least I don't have to see it in writing.

A friend of mine, who was a pillar of the local running club and still a very credible runner at age 71, collapsed during a regular training run last week, was taken to the hospital and died three days later of a massive stroke without ever regaining consciousness. He appeared to be in excellent health, was still working full-time and running 30+ miles per week. I suppose we'd all prefer to go the way he did rather than waste away in a hospital bed for months, but personally I'd rather be struck dead while jogging my mile every other day at age 105! Seriously, though, it makes me realize how much I should appreciate what I have, and that every run might be my last. Enjoy it.

Rtype is wanting to be in the “Goldilocks Zone” of training.

We all know the story of Goldilocks and the three bears. Not too hard or too soft but just right . Not too hot or too cold but just right. Goldilock found her just right but ended up doing time for B&E.

Not too hard not too easy but just right?

or

https://youtu.be/wRxHYHPzs7s

I kind of bounce around flying high then crashing . Dreams communicate with feelings. My recurring dream many years ago was running as fast as I can then jumping into the air feeling exhilaration until I lost momentum then crashing down and painfully hitting the ground but wait I would start running again knowing how it would end but running again and again maybe that is just how it is .

Rtype wrote:

With that, the plan is to find the “Goldilocks Zone” of training. In the past I’ve been both a streaker and an every-other-day-runner. I’m opting for 4 days a week presently, with a very gradual buildup. Also, although this thread is great, I sometimes wonder if those of us pushing 60 could be served by a 60+ thread. A lot of crap happens between 50 and 60!

Some fantastic posts and observations already this week (even some cute inane banter;) the year's end always tends to be that time when we have have a chance for some introspection.

Great post, Rtype, and synopsis of where you're at and what you're thinking for yourself. I've read plenty of studies that suggest that 4-days-a-week (or even 3) of running intermingled with targeted cross-training might be optimal for us older folk, so I think that's a sound approach. I'm inclined to say, though, that creating a whole new thread for 60+ is not really necessary. Yes, we're all aging and it's an unforgiving process, but it's also a continuous one, becoming more pronounced in the late 40's 'moving onward. Yes, there is so much that happens between 50 and 60; there is also so much that happens between 60 and 70; and there is even more so that happens between 70 and 80, etc., I'd like to keep the thread how it is, even if I, myself, am heading on to the 60+ soon. I feel enriched for having been able to read about our 60+ partners in their journey, for example, and use it as a guidepost; and I love reading about those just entering into this era of constant change to see how they are coping and the thread usually responds to validate their concerns. It's a good mix.

Oh, and diet......sigh......that constant nagging voice in my head......

Carry on!

Ezra the Gray wrote:

'mad bro? whaddup?

Some of us run a lot. Some don't but talk about it.

Some live in cold snowy climes and brag about it. Some don't.

Some walk the walk. Some just talk.

See you out there.

This is a weird post...are you hungover from Xmas parties?

Would someone be so kind to lay out the best "how-to" for this fasting program?

Thanks.

KP

KP wrote:

Would someone be so kind to lay out the best "how-to" for this fasting program?

Thanks.

KP

Inquiring minds want to know.....not that I can guarantee I'll follow it. Charlie already gave us a brief methodology, but I, personally, would need more specifics.

KP wrote:

Would someone be so kind to lay out the best "how-to" for this fasting program?

Thanks.

KP

Google

Time Restricted Eating

Intermittent fasting

Lots of good info that explains why it works and how to

My personal experience goes back about 15 years ago when did CRON which was way too restrictive but seemed to work. Fast forward I went off the deep end eating tons of carbs and getting HEAVY with bad labs but I kinda said oh well I feel ok. After my third bought with skin cancer, a scary one, 18 months ago was my wakeup call. I started doing 12 hours fast with fewer carbs and really healthy foods. So I was eating like 10am to 10pm. At first the lower carb intake felt terrible like a constant hang over but I started feeling better. Then I had a few times where I did not start eating until later in the day I felt even better but would end up carbing out and feeling like crap. So a few months ago I came across a bunch of info on 20 hours of not eating along with eating fewer carbs my idea and man what a difference.

The daily routine

quit eating by 5pm

coffee at 8am no cream or sugar checkout this:

My diet what I eat and when

-1 to 5 is my eating time

-start with nuts around 1

-piece of fruit about 2

- big salad and I mean big with lots of healthy dressing low sugar high fat at 3

-a sandwich grilled cheese turkey or what ever at 4:30 then maybe another piece of fruit

That is it just water after 5.

My sleep has never been better I sleep 8 hours a night without waking up

My weight has stayed about the same which is a bit disappointing but I feel really good and the number of AKs ie SCC insitu has gone way way down my body is taking care of business finding and killing precancerous cells like it does when you are young. Anyhow I am obviously sold on this just wish I had started doing this decades ago. Time to Eat.

If TRE and IF are so easy cheap and good for you why is it not catching on like wild fire?

Cause there is no money to be made no pills to sell no diet to follow no experts needed

Nolan Shaheed figured this out a long long time ago. Pretty amazing really.

Mon. off

Tues. 6.25 mi easy /treadmill

Wed. 5.15 mi easy/treadmill

Thru. 7.10 mi 2mi wu, 10 x 60s @ 540-510 pace with HR 108bpm R =

about 1min. 2mi wd.

Fri. 5.25 mi easy /treadmill

Sat. 10.02 mi 839 pace /street run

Sun. 10.08 mi 846 pace /street run

Consistent week.

Started Mon 12/25 with another 10 miler at the same pace but 3 different routes.

Tues. off.

Great thoughts, rtype. I feel you, as the youts [sic] say.

Question for the assembled wise people: knees.

My questions. Please feel free to redirect me to earlier pages on this long thread:

1) Does glucoasmine, with or w/o chondroitin, work?

2) Apart from eccentric decline squats for patellar tendonitis, are there specific exercises, in the gym or out, that you would recommend for knee health--apart from running, of course?

I am finally at the point where the rubber meets the road, vis a vis knees. Patellar tendonitis several years back was put to rest with 15 mg./day of Mobic, two weeks, then taper. But that was just one knee. Now it's the same knee (R) with the tendonitis and the other knee is something else that probably won't listen to eccentric decline squats. I'm taking 7.5 mg 3x a week on the day before I do longer runs.

You know the routine, I'm sure.

If one were a crazy older runner and was willing to fly in and take a consult with the best, or one of the very best, running docs focused on biomechanics/alignment, who would that doc (or alt practioner) be?

We all know that it's not (really) about the meds, it's about alignment. I'm a quick turnover, run-on-trails, listen-to-the-body guy. So this really is starting to feel like a feature of about-to-turn-60-dom, not a bug. But I'm always willing to learn something new--and really smart practitioners have been my salvation for more than a decade of great running. So I'm certainly willing to pay for a workup from somebody who has seen everything and can quickly see my issue.

Thanks, friends.

lucKY2b wrote:

KP wrote:

Would someone be so kind to lay out the best "how-to" for this fasting program?

Thanks.

KP

Inquiring minds want to know.....not that I can guarantee I'll follow it. Charlie already gave us a brief methodology, but I, personally, would need more specifics.

IF (intermittent fasting) is the broader term for basically setting aside a time period where you don’t eat. Like looking up treatments for PF you’ll find all kinds of crazy ideas if you look up IF on the internet. Me, I have coffee in the morning with sugar free sweetener and sugar free creamer. I eat nothing all day unless there is some social occasion. I think it is dumb to pass up a free lunch or fun times with your friends over this. But I kid you not; I absolutely do not get hungry at all if I eat absolutely nothing. And then I eat about 6 or 6:30 a normal dinner and even have snacks later up till about 9pm. You would think people pig out and catch up all those calories but the studies prove people don’t do that, they simply can’t catch up and they feel fully sated. I won’t go into the science of it since you can look it up. Like Charlie says, the food industry is going to push what?? Not eating? That would be a poor business decision. Look up Nolan Shaheed’s diet. His is a little more severe but he’s a great role model.

Oh, and I did do this in 2012. I got to 135 and basically caved to criticism from others and kinda lost my ambition and porked back up. Don’t tell people you are doing it, they’ll criticize you and try to convince you it is “starvation”. It takes at least 72 hours before you burn muscle, not 14 or so hours. Only in the last few years is the science stacking up behind it to prove its not crazy and its really good for you.

Psyched out by urologist having me on finastaride.

5mgm

Ive already been diagnosed with prostate cancer on only 1/10th of one core sample on the 2nd of 3, biopsies.

Im imagining or really experiencing side effects which I don't want to hinder my running.

I'll get around 1700 miles for the year this year and next, Id like to improve upon that but after using this stuff for 8 days THOUGHT i could really feel tenderness in my breast area, which is a real no-go for me ha...

So, I quit for 4 days then started back two days ago.

Getting old is a drag. Im 62 and have been a runner since 1977.

Anybody else use finastaride for any length of time without it hurting them training wise?

Kudzu,

On biomechanics, David McHenry, Therapeutic Associates, Portland, Oregon. Oregon Project PT.

Igy

Kudzu: https://www.therapeuticassociates.com/locations/oregon/portlandvancouver/north-portland/director/david-mchenry/

My thoughts on running thru the years. As a young man one benefits just by being more active and running more. Once sufficient base has been established race specificity is the path to improvement. This holds true even for masters athletes, the difference is in tolerance for the individual athlete, and is not age specific. However, increasingly with age, what works becomes narrow for individuals and groups. One may benefit by cross training for an easy day, others may thrive on no activity at all. The key is finding what works, and very simply, do more of it.

Igy

Not to argue, but options to TRE and IF can be with some stand-by's like portion control (small portions on small plates), single servings, no snacking, high value (low-fat proteins, clean veggies and fruits, avoid "empty" calories, etc.). The old adage of "push-ups from the table" and spend more socializing during meals and not watching TV, checking the phone, etc.

Had a single-digit windchill day, and ran a decent 5.5 miles on snowy roads by using trail shoes for grip, felt good to meet the challenge! Especially when doing weights at the gym and seeing people on the treadmills.

Someone posted “you will never out run a fork.”