Half marathon course cutter Ashley Paulson, who served 6 month contamination suspension, wins coveted Badwater 135.

No they aren’t. People in her community know she cheats. How many times can someone cheat until you stop letting it go?

The fact this is still being debated for 46 pages is pretty astounding. Anyways, while her checkered history of course cutting and doping ban does not bode well for her. I don’t think she cheated in this case. If she did, that’s pretty amazing that she could convince that many people in her camp to be complicit. However, she’ll never earn the respect from big names in the ultra world ( Camille Herron, Sage, etc…) because of previously mentioned dodgy history.

I'm "in her community," in the sense that I compete in triathlon at a World Championship level in my age group.

That does not mean that I, or any other triathletes are blind to facts or evidence and would be "extremely supportive" of her in any case. Triathletes don't just support triathletes. We support honest athletes. So there are many triathletes that have been critical of her for her past transgressions.

For the nth time in this thread, it isn't about declaring her innocent or being her cheerleader. It is about believing that proof and evidence mean something, regardless of what sports we participate in.

What if she chooses to do an event is far better regulated, like a Big Dog's Backyard race, and clobbers those people? Would she or should she not earn their respect then?

What if someone monitors her more closely in another ultra and she trounces the field? Should that not earn respect?

This anonymous accusation was mentioned in this thread many pages ago. There were at least three other runners that would have noticed if the course was cut (or a turn missed). If it happened, someone should have been responsible and come forward 3 years ago when it could have been easily resolved. Instead, we’re left with an anonymous accusation.

What if she pulled a no show for an Ultra right after her legendary performance? Would that not be suspect? She was tired or something?

Well, if she won Badwater, then won a marathon in 2:57 (with no hint of impropriety) about a week later, and then decided to skip an ultra, it wouldn't mean a darn thing.

Fair. I think that one just got buried in the splitting of hairs over the ensuing 30 pages of comments.

I'm continuing to talk about this to show support to the disparate athletes across two states and several years who claim to have witnessed her course-cutting. No doubt she is an amazing athlete, who, in addition to serious speed, has the mental and physical toughness for the long haul (multiple double IMs!) But Harvey's subtle messages over the past few weeks got to me and really planted the seed of doubt. The sport is all about people doing crazy things honestly and purely, with a focus more on challenging yourself than beating others or getting on podiums, much less benefiting financially in the afterglow of a big win.

Also, if I were running behind her at a race and witnessed something, I would be afraid to report it too. She seems like a lovely person, and she's well-known and established both locally and on social media. On its face, an accusation can look and sound more toxic than cheating. So I understand why those at Badwater who may have seen something have gone quiet.

No. There is one well documented and corroborated story of her going the wrong way at a HM and being perceived to have acted like an azzhole over it. I'm happy to admit it doesn't reflect well on her but over the course of a career as dense as hers that's very very thin sauce.

The second incident you're referring to is one throw away comment on a MI facebook page. Unreported anywhere else by anyone. Chances are better than even it was some basement dweller looking for the kudos of making a big contribution to the discussion who just decided to make it up.

One of two things is true:

Paulson deservedly won the race, or Harvey, the so-called godfather of Ultras and self-appointed steward of Badwater, is refusing to divulge proof of a cheater.

Which is less likely?

Honestly, if we are going to throw around unsubstantiated suspicions around, I think its far more likely that a person who runs tons of long races at a fairly high level with little to no breaks (or testing) is far more suspicious of some type of cheating than someone who is tested fairly regularly and has a break out performance in a different type of event than their professional past.

As someone who has followed Harvey for several years and talked to him in person, I have to say:

wut?

Yes, if she legitimately and verifiably clobbers a field, that would be deserving of respect.

Also, your other post about being in her community and this whole thing being about proof and evidence...you're not in her ultra running community. If Harvey came over to triathlons, ran a 14, a 13 and a 12 on cool fall courses, and then ran an 8:20 six months later on a tough course on a hot day when there was poor monitoring on the course, would you believe it was legitimate even if there was no smoking gun evidence and multiple competitors who's strength are on the bike said he disappeared out of nowhere on the bike and they never saw him again?

Except she thrives in training in tough conditions of extreme heat, incline, etc.

There are multiple issues with your analogy. But if we accept that Harvey’s first three Ironman triathlons were 14, 13 and 12 hours, then we should compare those to Ashley’s first three 100 miles runs. Time differences mentioned below are the same as what happened for Ashley, but adjusted on a percentage basis.
1: For the 14 hour triathlon, Harvey finished 1.4 hours behind the course record holder (who also won the most prestigious Ironman Triathlon in the U.S. the same year). If Harvey did this for his first ever triathlon, that would be impressive!
2: For Harvey’s second (13 hour) triathlon, he broke the course record by 50 minutes. That’s pretty impressive too.
3: For Harvey’s third triathlon of 12 hours, he won by 1-1/2 hours and barely broke the course record. But in a podcast, he said his goal was only 12 hours and in his post-race write-up, he said that he was sick and in pain much of the race. That would be quite impressive as well in my opinion.
Now if Harvey went 8 hours and 20 minutes (8:20), on a triathlon course of a different length and surface (road) it is also impressive since he beat the course record by a little over a minute. But in this case, only 250 athletes have finished the course since the 1980s and only 16 athletes have gone under 10:25 since the 1980s. So, it’s really hard to tell how impressive this performance is given how few finish, the realitively few numbers of top runners finish and the fact that Harvey used better equipment than what was available for most of the finishers.

Training for Ironman is much, much harder than training for ultras. It's not comparable. If Harvey ran a 14 on guts and then trained properly afterwards, nobody would be shocked to see him run a 9 or 10. But your comparison of their trainnig is a false equvalence - by every objective measure, Ashley Paulson is a much better overal athlete than Harvey is.

Agreed. But we're just talking about what happened on this particular day, not hypotheticals.

What happeneed on this day is she kicked his ass, he's muttered blandly a couple of times about some "story" he has but hasn't come out with, and nobody's come up with anything to dispel the notion that a highly-trained athlete had a great day.

The closest anyone has come on this thread to claiming there was an issue is a claim that "Harvey couldn't have done that," which, well, duh - Ashley has run 8 sub-3 marathons in the last 2 years, mixes ultras, IMs and road races, and is a much better athlete than he is.

She's a much better triathlete and marathoner than Harvey. She's not at all a better ultra endurance athlete. Not even close. And she's not all that good of an athlete that she's going to go from good-but-not-great to world-class elite in six months.

Usain Bolt is a better athlete and much faster than Ashley but give him six months and would he beat her in a marathon? Nope. And he wouldn't drive past Marcus Smart in basketball and Jalen Ramsey would be able to cover him on the football field. When you're a great athlete in your discipline, you're not going to overtake the best-of-the-best in other disciplines in what basically amounts to no time flat.

She didn't kick his ass. Her relay team kicked his ass.