And this is exactly my point: Kenya has had runners of he absolute highest calibre in any event from 800m to 10000m (incl. steeple) - not in the Marathon where they practically did not participate/do at all. They didn't had the depth of USA and UK but at the highest level they already have had surpassed them.
And to Armstrong: he will change the subject again, definitely.
It is the cumulative placing in the 1960s and 1970s and placing of the best Kenyan, e.g. Keino indeed broke the WR but was surpassed in the 1960s by Ron Clarke and subsequently was (2.).
Another way to look the issue of Kenyan performance is how good the fastest Kenyan runner in each event was in the world list both in the 1960s and 1970s. Far from a perfect metric, but interesting. I am not sure if any country had a better track record with this metric.
It is the cumulative placing in the 1960s and 1970s and placing of the best Kenyan, e.g. Keino indeed broke the WR but was surpassed in the 1960s by Ron Clarke and subsequently was (2.).
The positions at the end of the decade? Jipcho was 9th at the end of the 70s in the Mile.
OK. There is a flaw, now I do get it, took a second to spot it, the "Haase-problem".
If any runner outperformed their 1960s or 1970s in a different decade, it isn't registered in the list of the 1960s or 1970s. Ergo the data is unreliable but still (paradoxically) in essence illustrative, because the error can go to either direction favouring or unfavouring the Kenians.
OK. There is a flaw, now I do get it, took a second to spot it, the "Haase-problem".
If any runner outperformed their 1960s or 1970s in a different decade, it isn't registered in the list of the 1960s or 1970s. Ergo the data is unreliable but still (paradoxically) in essence illustrative, because the error can go to either direction favouring or unfavouring the Kenians.
During the decades, at the end of the decades, just achieved in the respective decade - regardless how you look at it, Kenya will come out as no. 1.
No other country was so close to the top in all of the events from 800m to 10000m - in both the 1960s and the 1970s.
The two boykotts of 76 and 80 have had a deep impact in Kenyan performances.
Statistics? "Lies, damned lies - and statistics". Fact: they produced two Olympic champions in 24 years - both favoured by an altitude venue.
You don't know anything about the history - nothing. Your "facts" are wrong, almost always. See this laughable post - wrong. You are completely unable just to rearrange your picture of the reality when new information is presented to you. You stick to your old one: New Zealand, Australia dominated. Kenya was one of several African countries!!! To challange the claim that Kenya was the most successful nation from 800 to 10000 in the period 1964 to 1979 you list runners from six nations!! Hardly to beat in it's pure stupidity.
Kenyan success started in the mid 1960s, to count it from 1956 is nonsense. Why not from 1896?
In the 1970s Kenya has had just one Olympic champion - and still was the no. 1 distance nation on the mens side.
0.07s away from the 800m world record
1s away from the 1500m and Mile world record
world records in the 3000m, 5000m, 10000m, steeple
They dominated the Commonwealth Games (8 gold - 5 silver - 7 bronze from 800 to 10000 incl. steeple) 20 of the 45 medals which were available, 8 of the 15 golds
The golden british era which started in the late 1970s produced how many Olympic gold medalists? Two (in heavily boykotted games)
If you want to challange my claim about Kenyan success, do it with correct stats and with a last rest of rationality.
Which country was more successfull from 800 to 10000 in the period 1964 to 1979? Or just in the 1970s.
And why was this country more successfull.
The candidates are New Zealand, Australia, Great Britain, USA, Finland.
It was you who heralded the Kenyan arrival from a 7th place getter in 1956. You lack the wits to follow your own arguments. But despite blowing your Kenyan trumpet with your highly-selective statistics what you won't do is answer the question, what role has their chronic doping played in Kenya success? If it was shown that any other country had doped as much in their national sport their achievements would be regarded with derision.
OK. There is a flaw, now I do get it, took a second to spot it, the "Haase-problem".
If any runner outperformed their 1960s or 1970s in a different decade, it isn't registered in the list of the 1960s or 1970s. Ergo the data is unreliable but still (paradoxically) in essence illustrative, because the error can go to either direction favouring or unfavouring the Kenians.
During the decades, at the end of the decades, just achieved in the respective decade - regardless how you look at it, Kenya will come out as no. 1.
No other country was so close to the top in all of the events from 800m to 10000m - in both the 1960s and the 1970s.
The two boykotts of 76 and 80 have had a deep impact in Kenyan performances.
So "close to the top" somehow makes them the top, when the champions in all the events from the 800 to the marathon came from other countries (with the limited exception of Keino and Temu at altitude)? It's an unusual argument that says not winning still makes you the best.
You don't know anything about the history - nothing. Your "facts" are wrong, almost always. See this laughable post - wrong. You are completely unable just to rearrange your picture of the reality when new information is presented to you. You stick to your old one: New Zealand, Australia dominated. Kenya was one of several African countries!!! To challange the claim that Kenya was the most successful nation from 800 to 10000 in the period 1964 to 1979 you list runners from six nations!! Hardly to beat in it's pure stupidity.
Kenyan success started in the mid 1960s, to count it from 1956 is nonsense. Why not from 1896?
In the 1970s Kenya has had just one Olympic champion - and still was the no. 1 distance nation on the mens side.
0.07s away from the 800m world record
1s away from the 1500m and Mile world record
world records in the 3000m, 5000m, 10000m, steeple
They dominated the Commonwealth Games (8 gold - 5 silver - 7 bronze from 800 to 10000 incl. steeple) 20 of the 45 medals which were available, 8 of the 15 golds
The golden british era which started in the late 1970s produced how many Olympic gold medalists? Two (in heavily boykotted games)
If you want to challange my claim about Kenyan success, do it with correct stats and with a last rest of rationality.
Which country was more successfull from 800 to 10000 in the period 1964 to 1979? Or just in the 1970s.
And why was this country more successfull.
The candidates are New Zealand, Australia, Great Britain, USA, Finland.
It was you who heralded the Kenyan arrival from a 7th place getter in 1956. You lack the wits to follow your own arguments. But despite blowing your Kenyan trumpet with your highly-selective statistics what you won't do is answer the question, what role has their chronic doping played in Kenya success? If it was shown that any other country had doped as much in their national sport their achievements would be regarded with derision.
You are extremely handicapped. In 1956 they competed for the 1st time at the Olympics. In 1964 they firstly resached world class. I have not contradicted anything I said. If you want to summarize the achievements of the Brits in their "golden era" you don't start in 1846 but in 1977 or 1978.
I have answered your question several times, I can't help you if you can't and/or don't want to read. I have answered it - several times you mentally ill person.
During the decades, at the end of the decades, just achieved in the respective decade - regardless how you look at it, Kenya will come out as no. 1.
No other country was so close to the top in all of the events from 800m to 10000m - in both the 1960s and the 1970s.
The two boykotts of 76 and 80 have had a deep impact in Kenyan performances.
So "close to the top" somehow makes them the top, when the champions in all the events from the 800 to the marathon came from other countries (with the limited exception of Keino and Temu at altitude)? It's an unusual argument that says not winning still makes you the best.
OK, I see you are still using your comparison of all other countries togather against Kenya. You just have not understood the unbelievable stubidity which is behind this "argumentation".
No, not all the champions in all the events came from other countries.
"Close to the top" in any event. Even this was not understood by you. Hard to believe - also I know your extremely limited thinking.
No. 1 in the 3000m, in the 5000m, in the 10000m, in the steeple - and 0.07s over the world record in the 800m, and 1s in the 1500m and the Mile. Yes, this for sure is a very strong argument for Kenya no. 1 in this period. Also your extremely limited brain can't grasp such very easy connections.
Those numbers are not the ultimate argument, for sure. When we add the extreme domination at the Commonwealth Games in all the events (I'm not talking about the Marathon, so if you add this you again change the subject) and the most number of Olympic medals (despite the 76 boykott) it's hard to argue against Kenya.
54 African records by Kenyans in this period, 21 by all the other African countries combined (I think I was wrong with this one before). For you this means Kenya was just one of several African countries. Looking forward that you will claim this again!
Which country has done better over the full spectrum of events 800m to 10000m incl. steeple in the period 1964 to 1979?
New Zealand? Australia? Great Britain? Finland? USA? Upper Volta? Fiji?
Name this country and give me your arguments why you think this country has done better in this period.
I know you will not do it.
Instead you will ask me something I have asked you several times. Madness pure. THIS will do. Definitely!
And to your laughable statement, other runners were faster than Kipchoge Keino: no, not a single one was faster than Keino in his era. Not a single one.
So "close to the top" somehow makes them the top, when the champions in all the events from the 800 to the marathon came from other countries (with the limited exception of Keino and Temu at altitude)? It's an unusual argument that says not winning still makes you the best.
OK, I see you are still using your comparison of all other countries togather against Kenya. You just have not understood the unbelievable stubidity which is behind this "argumentation".
No, not all the champions in all the events came from other countries.
"Close to the top" in any event. Even this was not understood by you. Hard to believe - also I know your extremely limited thinking.
No. 1 in the 3000m, in the 5000m, in the 10000m, in the steeple - and 0.07s over the world record in the 800m, and 1s in the 1500m and the Mile. Yes, this for sure is a very strong argument for Kenya no. 1 in this period. Also your extremely limited brain can't grasp such very easy connections.
Those numbers are not the ultimate argument, for sure. When we add the extreme domination at the Commonwealth Games in all the events (I'm not talking about the Marathon, so if you add this you again change the subject) and the most number of Olympic medals (despite the 76 boykott) it's hard to argue against Kenya.
54 African records by Kenyans in this period, 21 by all the other African countries combined (I think I was wrong with this one before). For you this means Kenya was just one of several African countries. Looking forward that you will claim this again!
Which country has done better over the full spectrum of events 800m to 10000m incl. steeple in the period 1964 to 1979?
New Zealand? Australia? Great Britain? Finland? USA? Upper Volta? Fiji?
Name this country and give me your arguments why you think this country has done better in this period.
I know you will not do it.
Instead you will ask me something I have asked you several times. Madness pure. THIS will do. Definitely!
Notice you left out the marathon there.
Number of athletes in the top 100 marathon times 1964 - 1979 :
Japan : 20
USA : 16
GB : 12 Aus/NZ : 10
USSR : 6
Finland : 4
Ethiopia : 3
Kenya : 0
For the number 1 distance running country in the world, zero in the top 100 marathon times isn't very impressive.
OK, I see you are still using your comparison of all other countries togather against Kenya. You just have not understood the unbelievable stubidity which is behind this "argumentation".
No, not all the champions in all the events came from other countries.
"Close to the top" in any event. Even this was not understood by you. Hard to believe - also I know your extremely limited thinking.
No. 1 in the 3000m, in the 5000m, in the 10000m, in the steeple - and 0.07s over the world record in the 800m, and 1s in the 1500m and the Mile. Yes, this for sure is a very strong argument for Kenya no. 1 in this period. Also your extremely limited brain can't grasp such very easy connections.
Those numbers are not the ultimate argument, for sure. When we add the extreme domination at the Commonwealth Games in all the events (I'm not talking about the Marathon, so if you add this you again change the subject) and the most number of Olympic medals (despite the 76 boykott) it's hard to argue against Kenya.
54 African records by Kenyans in this period, 21 by all the other African countries combined (I think I was wrong with this one before). For you this means Kenya was just one of several African countries. Looking forward that you will claim this again!
Which country has done better over the full spectrum of events 800m to 10000m incl. steeple in the period 1964 to 1979?
New Zealand? Australia? Great Britain? Finland? USA? Upper Volta? Fiji?
Name this country and give me your arguments why you think this country has done better in this period.
I know you will not do it.
Instead you will ask me something I have asked you several times. Madness pure. THIS will do. Definitely!
Notice you left out the marathon there.
Number of athletes in the top 100 marathon times 1964 - 1979 :
Japan : 20
USA : 16
GB : 12 Aus/NZ : 10
USSR : 6
Finland : 4
Ethiopia : 3
Kenya : 0
For the number 1 distance running country in the world, zero in the top 100 marathon times isn't very impressive.
Guess Kenyan talent had yet to 'go to the roads'.
Or mayby just EPO hadn't been invented yet.
Exactly, my numbers are for the distances from 800m to 10000m, you got this right, Coevett. Kenya was the no. 1 nation while looking on all the events from 800m to 10000m in the period 1964 to 1979. Not in the Marathon. Including the Marathon, Kenya is not the no. 1 for this period.
Kenyans almost didn't participate in the Marathon back then. For sure only because EPO was not available. But the non-EPO still enabled them over 10000m to win a Gold at the Olympics, Gold, Silver and Bronze at the Commonwealth Games and to end the 1970s with the two fastest runners in history.
And instead of downvoting any comment which you don't like, Coevett, you just could corect the wrong info. What about that?
Which runner was "faster" than Kipchoge Keino in his era? This has your ill friend claimed. Give me those runners (according to him not just one such runner exists).
But it's enough to give me one name - give me a single runner who was faster than Kipchoge Keino in the period mid 60s to the mid 70s.
The reason why Kenyan performances in the 5000m and 10000m declined after the full throttle doping era was because talent 'switched to the roads'.
But all those Japanese, Brits, Australians, New Zealanders, Americans dominating the marathon in the 60's and 70' wouldn't have been a factor on the track if they had decided to pursue their careers there?
The reason why Kenyan performances in the 5000m and 10000m declined after the full throttle doping era was because talent 'switched to the roads'.
But all those Japanese, Brits, Australians, New Zealanders, Americans dominating the marathon in the 60's and 70' wouldn't have been a factor on the track if they had decided to pursue their careers there?
OK, you think tose Marathoners from the 1960s and 1970s would have challenged Keino and Boit? For sure that's emenently possible. Unfortunately Basil Heatley has not worked hard to improve his already impressive 13:57.2 further. With little bit concentration he would have beaten Snell, pretty sure about that.
But you have not answered: Which runner was faster than Kip Keino. I'm sure you can name a few since you have downvoted my comment. Or is downvoting just some reflex for you? Not related to the content at all?