This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
Nearly a year after Florida U.S. District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle struck down the Biden administration’s mask mandate in April 2022, the Biden Department of Justice is still attempting to fight the courts to gain back the power to force Americans to reinstall emergency health mandates.
The most unintentionally hilarious of LRCs three stooges still doesn’t understand excess deaths, nor can he explain why excess deaths are so correlated with COVID infections and hospitalizations, globally, throughout time and space.
"New data from Yale researches shows that boosters reduced infections by more than 93% when given twice a year, 75% when given once a year, 55% when given every 1.5 years, and 24% when given every 3 years." Antivaxxers stay home mad and devastated!
Fox News medical contributor Dr. Marc Siegel reacts to new details about the possible origins of COVID, telling 'America Reports' the lab leak theory 'look p...
"New data from Yale researches shows that boosters reduced infections by more than 93% when given twice a year, 75% when given once a year, 55% when given every 1.5 years, and 24% when given every 3 years." Antivaxxers stay home mad and devastated!
"New data from Yale researches shows that boosters reduced infections by more than 93% when given twice a year, 75% when given once a year, 55% when given every 1.5 years, and 24% when given every 3 years." Antivaxxers stay home mad and devastated!
Nonsense. Everyone know it is.
Your being banned for being an anti-semite and reappearing under your new name is great. I used to have you blocked. I get to relive how stubborn, dumb, and boring your comments are. Keep it up Unkle/carmine!
"New data from Yale researches shows that boosters reduced infections by more than 93% when given twice a year, 75% when given once a year, 55% when given every 1.5 years, and 24% when given every 3 years." Antivaxxers stay home mad and devastated!
Guess he's not up to date with the latest on immune imprinting.
The experiment continues.
****** The virus continues to evolve, "so we need to continually evolve the booster and keep it updated to the most prevalent variant," Hassler said.
"Over 9 in 10 people aged 12 years and over in the UK had received one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, nearly 9 in 10 had received two doses and around 7 in 10 had received three or more doses by the end of August 2022."
Press Release: 21/12/2022 UK Doctors Call For Government To Urgently Pause and Investigate the Use of Novel mRNA Covid Vaccines Doctors for Patients UK (DfPUK) was established in September 2022 and has become a fast-growing g...
Had you caveated your assertion with “in older patients,” I may have listened better. As the paper states, immunosenescence may be at play in this demographic, and I, for one, have never argued that the elderly shouldn’t be vaccinated to spike. There are a few obvious demographics, and the elderly is one.
This study has serious limitations. The sample size is small, the follow up to convalescence is lacking (they are literally mostly looking at April & May of 2020), and they are making assumptions about affinity maturation that they haven’t corroborated here. Not at all. Also, to say nothing about the lack of acknowledgement of the broad T cell response to infection exposure. Notably,
“Across the two convalescent visits, B cells reactive to ORF8 and NP were increased in percentage and absolute numbers relative to spike B cells (Figures 3E–3G; total cell numbers indicated). Although the degree of SHM for all antigen-specific B cells was increased across study visits (Figure 3H; Figures S3B and S3C), the B cells displaying the highest degree of SHM in convalescent visit 2 were majority NP-specific (Figures 3I and 3J). At the individual level, all four subjects displayed increases in the percentage of MBCs to NP across time points, and half of the subjects displayed modest increases to ORF8. The change in percentage for spike-specific B cells across visits was negligible for three of four subjects, with one subject displaying a substantial decrease (Figure S3D, S210). Previous groups have identified that spike-specific MBCs increase over time (Dan et al., 2021; Rodda et al., 2021; Sokal et al., 2021), and our study is limited in that this analysis was performed in only four subjects.“
… we are talking about four whole people, most of who don’t show a decrease in spike-binding B cells, consistent with other data.
Also, quite nebulous:
”Because of the nature of this approach and the inability to clone antibodies from every B cell, it remains likely that a fraction of cells included in the analysis are non-specific and that a fraction of cells excluded either by gating or pre-filtering were actually specific. Therefore, our dataset represents only a subset of the total antigen-specific B cells induced by SARS-CoV-2.”
Moreover, huge disclaimer:
“Although mAbs to NP and ORF8 were non-neutralizing in vitro, they might still provide protection in vivo, potentially through Fc-mediated pathways if the proteins were exposed on the virus or cell surface at appreciable levels.”
At best, this paper suggests to me that hybrid immunity is the most complete immunity in certain cohorts, like the elderly. But it surely doesn’t tell me that it’s better than natural immunity for anyone else. In fact, you will never convince me of that and especially not with a paper looking at a tiny sample at the very beginning of “the plague,” without thorough follow up and without serious affinity maturation data. This says absolutely nothing about Delta (the deadly strain) or Omicron variants and sub-lineages.
Yes, we’ve discussed this, it’s pre-Omicron, but it still says something important about reinfection risk and symptomology. It’s impossible to “bring data” at this point. Some 80% of the US population 18 and over have received the primary series vaccination. There is very little control group left. Nobody is beating my door down to explore my immunity and recruit me for a study. There have been multiple iterations of convalescence, and vaccine and convalescence, all with their varying forms of antigenic sin.
But, then again, I’m not the audience you are trying to reach. So you are wasting my time and vice versa, as per usual.
The UK NHS is about as medical establishment as it gets - and even they are starting to crack. Expect the perennial boogeymen of money and staffing to be trotted out as the reasons for the increase in excess deaths, but we know the truth.
******
The number of deaths registered in the first week of January was 3,437 higher than if mortality rates had been the same as in week one of 2019 – equivalent to 30 per cent more deaths than expected.
The CMI said some of the excess was still linked to Covid, but also warned there may have been “indirect impacts” because of restrictions on movement and changes in behaviour during the pandemic.
Figures show that there were 31,000 excess deaths in 2022, of which 26,300 occurred in the second half of the year.
Compared to 2019, deaths in 2022 were 4.5 per cent higher than expected.
The CMI warned that the first week of January was impacted by public holidays, when register officers are closed, meaning some death registrations will have been delayed.
Press Release: 21/12/2022 UK Doctors Call For Government To Urgently Pause and Investigate the Use of Novel mRNA Covid Vaccines Doctors for Patients UK (DfPUK) was established in September 2022 and has become a fast-growing g...
"I still possess animosity toward the formerly respectable so-called experts who’ve become compromised by their political biases and the fear of losing their high status in society ..."
Had you caveated your assertion with “in older patients,” I may have listened better. As the paper states, immunosenescence may be at play in this demographic, and I, for one, have never argued that the elderly shouldn’t be vaccinated to spike. There are a few obvious demographics, and the elderly is one.
This study has serious limitations. The sample size is small, the follow up to convalescence is lacking (they are literally mostly looking at April & May of 2020), and they are making assumptions about affinity maturation that they haven’t corroborated here. Not at all. Also, to say nothing about the lack of acknowledgement of the broad T cell response to infection exposure. Notably,
“Across the two convalescent visits, B cells reactive to ORF8 and NP were increased in percentage and absolute numbers relative to spike B cells (Figures 3E–3G; total cell numbers indicated). Although the degree of SHM for all antigen-specific B cells was increased across study visits (Figure 3H; Figures S3B and S3C), the B cells displaying the highest degree of SHM in convalescent visit 2 were majority NP-specific (Figures 3I and 3J). At the individual level, all four subjects displayed increases in the percentage of MBCs to NP across time points, and half of the subjects displayed modest increases to ORF8. The change in percentage for spike-specific B cells across visits was negligible for three of four subjects, with one subject displaying a substantial decrease (Figure S3D, S210). Previous groups have identified that spike-specific MBCs increase over time (Dan et al., 2021; Rodda et al., 2021; Sokal et al., 2021), and our study is limited in that this analysis was performed in only four subjects.“
… we are talking about four whole people, most of who don’t show a decrease in spike-binding B cells, consistent with other data.
Also, quite nebulous:
”Because of the nature of this approach and the inability to clone antibodies from every B cell, it remains likely that a fraction of cells included in the analysis are non-specific and that a fraction of cells excluded either by gating or pre-filtering were actually specific. Therefore, our dataset represents only a subset of the total antigen-specific B cells induced by SARS-CoV-2.”
Moreover, huge disclaimer:
“Although mAbs to NP and ORF8 were non-neutralizing in vitro, they might still provide protection in vivo, potentially through Fc-mediated pathways if the proteins were exposed on the virus or cell surface at appreciable levels.”
At best, this paper suggests to me that hybrid immunity is the most complete immunity in certain cohorts, like the elderly. But it surely doesn’t tell me that it’s better than natural immunity for anyone else. In fact, you will never convince me of that and especially not with a paper looking at a tiny sample at the very beginning of “the plague,” without thorough follow up and without serious affinity maturation data. This says absolutely nothing about Delta (the deadly strain) or Omicron variants and sub-lineages.
Yes, we’ve discussed this, it’s pre-Omicron, but it still says something important about reinfection risk and symptomology. It’s impossible to “bring data” at this point. Some 80% of the US population 18 and over have received the primary series vaccination. There is very little control group left. Nobody is beating my door down to explore my immunity and recruit me for a study. There have been multiple iterations of convalescence, and vaccine and convalescence, all with their varying forms of antigenic sin.
But, then again, I’m not the audience you are trying to reach. So you are wasting my time and vice versa, as per usual.
The study confirms basic immunology. Most epitopes from the full set of viral proteins are not going to assist neutralization. Sure Fc functions can help down the line, but a strong protective response requires neutralization to prevent fusion. The immune system is pretty good at directing its response toward the spike to get this neutralization (are your B cells paid by Fauci? What a betrayal) but they aren’t perfect. Luckily scientists are smarter and the vaccine, of course, perfectly targets the spike for excellent neutralization.
Add in the many studies showing greater breadth of antibodies after vaccination + boosting than from infection and the superiority of the vaccine is clear.
Like, yeah, if you wanna collect random B cells targeting useless epitopes on the RdRp or something - stamp collecting - then sure. Get COVID a bunch and avoid the vax.
When the COVID vaccines were initially developed, there was a global push to pressure the vaccine manufacturers to release the patents and allow poorer count...
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