Is Sebastian Coe the only white distance runner in the top 10?

Coevett wrote:

Although Kenya does dominate the top rankings this year again, it's pretty much down to one training group (Bernard Ouma's), and I think Kenya and GB have the same number in the top 20.

Kenya: 9 (including top 5)

GB: 2 (including Nr. 20)

Your attempted analysis is a good idea, but the problem comes from limiting your observations to middle distance. While Kenyans do dominate 800m and 1500m, it is not nearly as much as they dominate in the longer distances, especially the marathon. Vincent Sarich, a New Zealand biologist working at the University of California in Berkeley, did a similar numerical analysis, but for a 12km Cross-Country race, finding that: - Kenyans outperformed the rest of the world by a factor of about 1700. - While European runners might produce 1 elite runner in a population of 20 million, Kenya will produce 80 elite runners, in a population of 1 million. "Thus, a country like Britain, which has a population of 60 million should produce three elite runners (1 per 20 million) who are able to compete with about 240 Kalenjin (80 per million in a population of 3 million)." (Excerpts can be found in the Timothy Noakes "Lore of Running" published in 2001) In a recent book, Vincent Sarich also discusses the often repeated topic here whether it is racist to acknowledge racial factors in something like sporting performance. "They conclude with the paradox that, while, scientific honesty requires forthright recognition of racial differences, public policy should not recognize racial-group membership."https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325380350_Race_The_reality_of_human_differences The Cross Country result was an analysis of 1997 World Cross-Country in Turin, where: - Kenya placed 10 men in the top-50 (1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 17, 19, 24, 28, and 47) in a race that started with 280 of the World's best distance runners - The team average of all 10 runners (36:04) would have placed them 12th overall individually (ahead of Jon Brown) - If we counted all 10 scorers, versus every countries top-6 scorers, they still would have placed 3rd as a team. - The fastest American was Scott Larson, placing 51, behind all 10 Kenyans. - The Brits did better, with Jon Brown placing 14, almost 1 minute slower, and 2 more in the top 50 (38, 43) - For those who think about Kenyan age cheats giving their juniors an unfair advantage, by passing off seniors as juniors, in the same Championship, the Kenya Juniors placed 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9 out of 160 of the World's best juniors, a pool of Kenyan athletes which did not include the 10 Kenyan Seniors.

Coevett wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

I agree that he is lame, but there are worse trolls. And letsrun isn't exactly against trolling or racism, so no surprise here.

Trolling is coming back under different names to support yourself, even to the extent of doing it quite sophisticatedly with different 'personas' (such as your alter ego 'Spade Detector').

Not to mention that you're likely a Putin troll out to render any serious discussion of doping impossible here.

I’ve never posted under the name casual runner. Once again you show yourself to be a clueless loon.

Coevett wrote:

The top running forum online continues to propagate the racist idea that 4/5 of the world's population, including most of the young athletes who will visit this place, can't compete at the top because of their skin color. It's time the Brojos did something about this.

What would you have them do? Not allow posters to make threads ranking all-time greats and ban them for doing so because you think it is racist to rank success?

spade detector wrote:

Coevett wrote:

The top running forum online continues to propagate the racist idea that 4/5 of the world's population, including most of the young athletes who will visit this place, can't compete at the top because of their skin color. It's time the Brojos did something about this.

What would you have them do? Not allow posters to make threads ranking all-time greats and ban them for doing so because you think it is racist to rank success?

This thread is funny.

1) Sebastian Coe was an 800m runner who could race well at the distance of 1500m. Sebastain Coe was not a distance runner.

2) Sebastain Coe's mother was 1/2 Indian. I have read a year or so ago, Robert Johnson considers Indians white since Brits going back 5000 to 10000 years ago trace portions of their roots back to India. What a stretch.

3) Peter Coe, Sebastain Coe's father was most likely a crypto-Sephardic Jew.

A real stretch considering Sebastain Coe a distance runner.

A real stretch considering Sebastain Coe a white man.

Coevett wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

El G never lost to Bekele, not sure he ever lost to Geb at a senior level.

El G isn't black enough for lil sebby and the rest.

And the entire continent of Africa isn't white enough for you.

It amazes me that every time I read one of these all-time lists, history always forgets the 7:29/12:47/26:39 guy with two Olympic medals and 4 WC medals. Unless I missed it, I did not even seen his name mentioned once as of yet this entire thread...

The Stone Cutter wrote:

It amazes me that every time I read one of these all-time lists, history always forgets the 7:29/12:47/26:39 guy with two Olympic medals and 4 WC medals. Unless I missed it, I did not even seen his name mentioned once as of yet this entire thread...

Now it has.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

It amazes me that every time I read one of these all-time lists, history always forgets the 7:29/12:47/26:39 guy with two Olympic medals and 4 WC medals. Unless I missed it, I did not even seen his name mentioned once as of yet this entire thread...

Sihine is not white and not British. If white and British he would have been mentioned dozens of times.

GTFO loser wrote:

No we are upset that you, COEVETT, are still allowed to post on this site. Really, what are the Mods on this site thinking? Every post that you make brings down the average IQ a few points for every one of us. Please do everyone a kindness and disappear.

This ^ Spot on!

Viren over Said - multi time WR holder and four time gold medalist. Peter Snell should be in the conversation - three gold medals and two WR's.

Also, unrelated to the white part, Farah absolutely deserves a place on this list. He didn't break any big wr's, but if you compare everyone after 2005 to KB then no one will ever measure up again, but that doesnt mean he isn't still th greatest tactician of all-time. 10 gold and 2 silver medals at worlds or Olympics is not an accident. Its so so impressive.

GTFO loser wrote:

No we are upset that you, COEVETT, are still allowed to post on this site. Really, what are the Mods on this site thinking? Every post that you make brings down the average IQ a few points for every one of us. Please do everyone a kindness and disappear.

+100

Coevett, why is it more easy to dominate during the EPO era? For 10 years.

Star wrote:

Surely you can find someone to replace Daniel Komen on that list.

Maybe Henry Rono.

For white guys better than Daniel Komen:

John Walker

Steve Ovett

Steve Cram

Birmingham, Zatopek, Viren that you mentioned could all replace Komen.

Holding a non championship record like the 3k a long time doesn’t get you on the all time list.

I don't know how anyone can think of leaving Komen OFF such a list.

3:29, 7:20 and 12:39

He beat Geb in his prime, has faster PRs than Geb in the 1500 and the 3000m (5 secs faster over the 3) and is pretty much right in line with him over 5000m. If Geb is one of the top 1 or 2, Komen has to be in the top ten. Certainly none of the guys you mentioned would've competed as well as Komen did against both Geb and El G.

KB and Geb are both in the list. Undeniably. Komen was clearly in their league, and yards ahead of anybody else. Komen beat both of those two guys in two out of the three events he competed in. I don't see how can you suggest they're in the top 3 and Komen isn't even on the list.

On any given day it'd be a toss up who would win in a 5000m between those three guys, while it's fair to suggest Komen would consistently have beaten them in the 1500 and/or 3000.

very serious question wrote:

Coevett, why is it more easy to dominate during the EPO era? For 10 years.

Because clearly being doped to the gills prevents injury.

Up until the 1990s, it was almost unheard of for athletes to get to their mid-twenties without starting to break down. Yet in the EPO era, they could race at their best week in week out for years, and the top Africans continued at the top into their 30s, with Kipchoge likely in his late 30s and still dominating.

I accept that I'm never going to be able to convince most of you guys that Kenyans aren't a genetic ueber species, but I doubt it's commonly thought even here that Moroccans are genetically much different to Europeans. Yet El G could run close to WR pace every single week of the season throughout his twenties?

There's also the possibility you should be brave and consider that, despite the times getting faster, the competition was actually weaker in the EPO era, particularly in the 1500m.

For example, think of all the great European 1500m runners in the 80's - Coe, Cram, Ovett, Elliott, Abascal, Gonzalez, Deleze, Straub, Kirov, Herald, Wessinghage, Moorcroft etc etc

Then in the 1990s you had, well you had..Cacho to challenge the Africans.

Yes, I know there were a few 90s European runners faster than the likes of Abascal and Wessinghage, but this was the EPO era, when I would guess that at several of the top Spanish, French guys were taking it (including Cacho). I don't belive that guys like Cacho and Rui Silva were naturally faster than even Abascal etc, let alone the Brits.

Contrary to Rekrunner's pseudo-scientific playing around with stats, the fact that European 1500m running went into clear decline in the 90s, despite EPO becoming available and producing ridiculous times elsewhere, is substantive proof that there wasn't a doping culture in Europe in the 80s (aside of course from the Soviet Bloc).

Middle-distance running went into steep decline from the end of the 80s outside of Africa, and no doubt the EPO cheating played a part in it. Lots and lots of talented young runners just lost their motivation. Other factors played a part too, such as competition from more lucrative professional sports such as football.

Would El G have dominated for nearly a decade if the likes of Ovett, Coe, Cram, or even Gonzalez and Wessinhage had been at their peak and doped up with EPO, HGH and everything else? I don't think so.

(not that El G did strictly dominate in that he only won Golds at one Olympics, but he was the number one 1500m runner for nearly a decade).

Basically, the Africans dominated among themselves in the EPO era, and a few doped up European sub-elites. The rest practically gave up.

This doesn't explain why a single runner could dominate for 10 years (and could go on after the perioud to set many more WRs)

+1

And this is what "rekrunner" fails to comprehend with his supercilious attitude of always referencing his unreliable data on this topic.

The Tanzanians were the best Africans in the mid-to-late 1970s, unfortunately for them the Italians and the Dutch never went there so just like the West they fell behind.

Subway Surfers wrote:

The Tanzanians were the best Africans in the mid-to-late 1970s, unfortunately for them the Italians and the Dutch never went there so just like the West they fell behind.

Though recently, Ugandans have greatly increased their dominance and numbers on the world stage. I wonder why? ???