Correct. They don't HAVE to. Paul Cummings never served a mission. Thus, why he's not on the list, but he was another great Mormon Olympic runner out of BYU.
Correct. They don't HAVE to. Paul Cummings never served a mission. Thus, why he's not on the list, but he was another great Mormon Olympic runner out of BYU.
Stormin Mormon wrote:
All Mormons have to go on a 2 year mission. NO THEY DON'T!
This is true. All Mormons do not have to serve a mission...………….BUT, there is very strong pressure on every male church member to serve a two year mission. They also try every tactic to entice you to serve a two year mission. All of the youth programs have a central theme running through them which is to prepare the male to serve a mission when they finish high school. It used to be age 19 but too many were getting involved in school or working/training for a career that they had to make it easier for them to leave on a mission.
Women on the other hand do not have near the same amount of pressure, if any, to serve an 18 month mission. Not sure why women only serve 18 months instead of two years but that's what it is for them. I believe that women have to be 21 years old before they can go. Is that still the same of has it been changed as well?
Women can go at 19 now. That changed 5-6 years ago..
The young men are definitely encouraged to go on a mission. Using words like "pressured"and "every tactic seems to carry a really negative conotation , but it probably depends on your perspective, I suppose.
When I was young I served as a missionary, but sometimes I had my girlfriend on top.
Different now as well wrote:
Women can go at 19 now. That changed 5-6 years ago..
The young men are definitely encouraged to go on a mission. Using words like "pressured"and "every tactic seems to carry a really negative conotation , but it probably depends on your perspective, I suppose.
Thanks! I didn't know that the age for women serving a mission had changed but it makes sense. Is it still 18 months or can they serve two years like the guys (Elders)
As an ethic Jew, any proselytizing, I see it as antismetic. End of story. No matter how much you want to believe in something, that does NOT make it true.
Your response is a classic example of how a lifetime of indoctrination kills the ability to think critically.
"You can't look at the past with today's standards. Everybody was racist 100 years ago"
1978 wasn't 100 years ago. Slavery and racism are immoral and the Mormon Church should apologize for their racism. Not everyone was racist even when slavery was legal. What is the point of having a prophet that receives guidance from God? Isn't a prophet supposed to be prophetic and transcendent? Doesn't the Mormon Church teach that it doesn't follow the "ways of the world?" When the Mormon prophet received revelation that blacks can't hold the preisthood, were the prophets mistaken, or is God racist?
" Is the church currently racist by today's standards? "
Yes, the Mormon church has canonized racism. The Book of Mormon teaches white skin is "pure and delightsome" and dark skin is a curse.
"Women can hold plenty of leadership positions and are fine with the positions that they can and can't hold"
Women don't hold any positions that aren't overseen and selected by men. How do you know they are fine with the positions that they are allowed to hold? They promise in the temple not to speak ill of their male leaders, and to obey their husbands. Women have no voice in the Mormon church. Google Kate Kelly. She was excommunicated for advocating for equal right of women in the Mormon religion.
"Women also have "advantages" over men in the church"
Care to give any examples?
"Nobody can force their views onto you"
I live in Utah. The Mormon Church controls the state legislators. Over the last couple of years the Mormon Church has killed bills that would have made stronger laws for hate crimes, and criminalized conversion therapy. The Mormon Church tried to kill the bill that would have legalized medical cannabis. The public opposed the Church's stance, so state legislators passed a watered down version of the bill at the request of Mormon lobbyists. So yeah, the Mormon Church does force their view onto me.
"The church contributes more to humanitarian aid than almost anyone else and definitely more than you ever will."
I contribute a lot more than 0.8% of my revenue to charitable causes. I would certainly contribute more that $40 million a year if I brought in over $5 billion. However, my ability to give to charities is irrelevant to the argument. The Mormon Church could do far more good in the world than they do. If Jesus were leading the Mormon Church, do you think he would tell leaders to spend $5 billion to purchase a mall (City Creek Mall)? Would he instruct leaders to put rugs in temples that cost over $20,000?
"There are a lot of expenses to be paid than you would realize and the .8% that they contribute towards humanitarian aid is actually a lot higher when you consider the ways they spend money that indirectly contribute to humanitarian aid.
"
The Mormon Church owns over $32 billion in stock (they shelter it in umbrella companies that are just a front). They earn over a billion dollars in just investment income a year. Don't bullshit me about them having too many expenses to give more than a pitiful 0.8% of their revenue to humanitarian aid. They bought a $5 billion shopping mall! If the Mormon Church didn't keep their financial information as secretive as they do, we would have a clearer picture of how little they actually do compared to what they are capable of doing.
"I hold my stance that it gives more good than bad"
I hold my stance that the Mormon Church does little good in the world, and has blood on its hands for the suicides that have occurred as a result of their ostracizing the marginalized.[/quote]
You have mistaken the church completely and misunderstood everything about it. I urge you to fully research each of these topics before forming an opinion. It will truly surprise you why you learn. I'm not here to argue and I'm not here to bash on anyone. That's all that this thread has turned into and I don't want a part in it anymore. If you wish to have a legitimate discussion about all of this then I'm happy to, but I'm not going to sit here and be bashed on for my beliefs. Really, research everything about the church and everything pieces together. Taking one topic and nitpicking details about it isn't helpful without knowledge about the rest of it. That is all. Best of wishes to you.[/quote]
The guy grew up in Utah, went to a mormon church, became disillusioned as he came to learn the less than savory qualities of your church, continues to live in Utah and witness it firsthand, and all you can respond with is "research more?" He's provided tons of facts, none of which you refute, and all you do is play the victim card.
You say "if you wish to have a legitimate discussion about all this then I'm happy to." What part of his breakdown wasn't legitimate? I'm sure he can back all the facts provided, I'm sure he has more ready if you'd like and I'm sure he has more firsthand experience to offer. The only one not willing to have a legitimate discussion is you and other mormons the moment an ounce of criticism is returned towards your "do no wrong" belief system.
I guess you could always leave if you don't like living in Utah.
Many years ago I did five years living in Provo "happy valley" trapped behind the Zion curtain. Nice people for the most part but I was glad to leave.
I thought this was a thread about Clinger. Apparently not!
The problem with this reasoning is that, if god is omnipotent, he could have created all of those things without causing suffering. All animals could have been vegans, for instance.
Pointing to physical realities doesn't get god off the hook because he ins't subject to physical laws -- he created them.
The idea of letting bad things happen is not the same as creating the best possible world. The best possible world very well may include bad things. It's that there can't be any EXTRA examples of "bad things" above and beyond what is necessary to create a given level of good. In other words, if we could have had a world with just as much good as we have, but less suffering, that would be a better world, and this would not be the best possible world.
But much of the suffering we are talking about has nothing to do with mankind. Also, because god is omnipotent, he could have taught us all of those lessons without needing to resort to suffering. The parent/child analogy is a common one, but it is way off the mark because parents are not omnipotent.
Believing in a god is just as absurd as believing in me. I don't know why intelligent people choose to believe in MANufactured supernatural figures like us in the absence of evidence. It's annoying and irresponsible.
Anyway, why would I give a sh*t about each and every one of you 7 billion imbeciles on that pale blue dot? Ho ho ho
Just Browsing.... wrote:I thought this was a thread about Clinger. Apparently not!It is but apparently it has drifted off onto other sub-topics. You care to add anything about Casey? Personally I hope that he comes back and has a fantastic career.
Not Casey's Mom wrote:
Just Browsing.... wrote:I thought this was a thread about Clinger. Apparently not!
It is but apparently it has drifted off onto other sub-topics. You care to add anything about Casey? Personally I hope that he comes back and has a fantastic career.
The Casey-related discussion would be what, that he has done what many others like him have done beforehand and many others will do afterwards? Cool. Not much else to say on that.
Jayordon wrote:
You can't look at the past with today's standards. Everybody was racist 100 years ago (when blacks were not allowed the priesthood).
Yikes. I'm a Mormon, but this is one of the more cringey things I've ever read on these boards. The Mormon treatment of blacks bothers me. And the church's essay on black history leaves a lot to be desired.
https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=engYou honestly believe drug and alcohol abuse is almost nonexistent among Mormons? Wow, that’s cute. You must not live in Utah to see how untrue that is! Or you do live here and are blind. I see you also don’t mention the extremely high rate of depression and suicides among the Mormons here in Utah. They are nice? Not really. See how “nice” they are to, and how they treat, your non-Mormon kids. Or how nice they are to friends and family who leave the cult. I live in Utah and see the negative things about Mormons on a daily basis.
a mormon wrote:
Jayordon wrote:
You can't look at the past with today's standards. Everybody was racist 100 years ago (when blacks were not allowed the priesthood).
Yikes. I'm a Mormon, but this is one of the more cringey things I've ever read on these boards. The Mormon treatment of blacks bothers me. And the church's essay on black history leaves a lot to be desired.
https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng
That is the only thing about the Mormon church that bothers you?
What?! wrote:
That is the only thing about the Mormon church that bothers you?
Did I say it was?
Do you know what else bothers me? Hate-filled people who attack others' beliefs.
This idea of evil and God being mutually exclusive is a relatively new one, with its beginning in the enlightenment era when people began to decide they were pretty freaking smart. This resulting faith in our own finite intellect is where some begin to question an infinite being's motives-something only done from to high a view of self.
This guy has really weird ears ?!
I have lived next door to a Mormon family for 15 years. Their 4 children grew up there and interacted with my children. They are the nicest people in the neighborhood.